D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hi Sorcica mate!

The Trolls CR simply includes the ability score increases for size. But if we closely examine it we can see that it gains much more than the typical size increases.

I think you can 'get away with it' for monsters but not for PCs.

Hi Krust.
But then is not really possible to use the CR as ECL assumption in v.4. One has to doublecheck?

No what I said was in the Troll example, the silver rule didn't change the figures so there was no point using it.

8.2 + 1.2 (6th-level equipment) = 9.4 (7.99 after silver rule)
8.2 + 1.4 (7th) = 9.6 (8.16 after silver rule)
8.2 + 1.6 (8th) = 9.8 (8.33 after silver rule)

Therefore the Troll is ECL 8

Ok, so apply all factors and then use silver rule. You only changed the order this time around because it made no difference?

They are right beside the Beholder; Displacer Beast; Mind Flayer and Umber Hulk locked in WotCs revised OGL laws.

I temporarily circumnavigated those laws for the epic monsters for this technically playtest pdf, but the epic monsters are supposedly going to be updated before the release of the IH.

Ahh..I see
Curse you, WotC!

So what would you rate them?


The v.4 is great, I just think is times a bit more to fully grasp than v.3 did. But I'll get there!

See ya.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Firstly can I say to Wulf that I just spent 50 minutes typing out a reply to your last email, thought I would have one last look at the XLS file you sent (I had been having problems with XLS I keep getting errors although it was letting me view the spreadsheet okay) only to have my email somehow deleted giving me a bit of a sickener.

I'll reply again first thing in the morning - incidently I received the exact same email a few hours ago - so there must have been some delay the first time you sent it.

Hi Krust.

Hiya mate.

But then is not really possible to use the CR as ECL assumption in v.4. One has to doublecheck?

Well you could still use it, but in a similar vein to the core race racial traits its a matter of accuracy.

I think PCs are far more likely to exploit such advantages than their NPC counterparts.

Ok, so apply all factors and then use silver rule. You only changed the order this time around because it made no difference?

Yep.

Ahh..I see
Curse you, WotC!

I wasn't complaining - less CRs for me to revise.

So what would you rate them?

No idea, I honestly don't even want to look at them to be fair.

Lets call them v4's 'Fill in the blanks' section. I coloured in all the other monsters now you get to play with the crayons.

The v.4 is great, I just think is times a bit more to fully grasp than v.3 did. But I'll get there!

I think its just a matter of trying it, until you actually put something into practice theres always that uncertainty.

See ya.

Thanks for the feedback mate.

 

[Knight Otu]

They are right beside the Beholder; Displacer Beast; Mind Flayer and Umber Hulk locked in WotCs revised OGL laws.

But shouldn't that include the slaadi? At least are not in the SRD. (As well as the terms Guardinal and Eladrin, although the corresponding celestials are in the SRD).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Knight Otu mate!

But shouldn't that include the slaadi? At least are not in the SRD. (As well as the terms Guardinal and Eladrin, although the corresponding celestials are in the SRD).

Here are the monsters that are no longer open content:

beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan-ti.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Firstly can I say to Wulf that I just spent 50 minutes typing out a reply to your last email, only to have my email somehow deleted giving me a bit of a sickener. I'll reply again first thing in the morning.

UGH. Sorry bout that... I'd love it if you can post that reply here on the boards-- I'm about to head in to work and have a long business trip today, but I can check these boards for a few hours yet. Would love to have a reply to think about during that trip.


Wulf

 

[kreynolds]

Like this:
7 lvls of wealth = + 1.4 CR

Troll CR 7.4 + 1.4 = 8.8 CR

We then need one more lvl of wealth to account for 8th lvl = +0.2 CR

8.8 + 0.2 = 9.0

One more lvl to account for 9 th lvl = 9.2 CR

9.2 * 0.85 (silver rule) = 7.82 rounded to 7.

Ugh. Is it really supposed to be reapplied like that? Doesn't make much sense if it is. You're effectively applying wealth levels to wealth levels to wealth levels, which is awfully clunky.

UK. Is this how it is meant to work? Does wealth apply to wealth apply to wealth apply to wealth?

 

[Knight Otu]

Here are the monsters that are no longer open content:

I am aware of them. However, going by the SRD, the slaadi and the group names of the celestials I've mentioned, are also not open content. (Also some of the advanced creatures, such as the mummy lord, are not in the SRD, but some are).

Or has the SRD been changed when I wasn't looking?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

UGH. Sorry bout that...

Par for the course with this crazy computer.

I'd love it if you can post that reply here on the boards-- I'm about to head in to work and have a long business trip today, but I can check these boards for a few hours yet. Would love to have a reply to think about during that trip.

Will do, although I'll email you the last thing you discuss in that email.

Here you go...

1. Your new method for determining multiple opponent EL.

What happens if you have a Great Wyrm Red Dragon (CR 59) and 15 Skeletons (CR +10)

CR 69 = EL 25

16 characters = EL -8. So that would be EL 17.

So a great red wyrm with multiple weaker opponents actually rates weaker than such a dragon on its own!?

Or did I miss something?

2. Your new method for determining experience points.

If you have party size along the top and EL difference along the side (on the table) there is no room for CR/Level. Doesn't that mean that DMs/PCs will have to multiply for every level other than 1st. Whereas at least my Table gives them 30 levels to simply 'look up' and apply a figure. I am not yet convinced if your updated table for EXP is actually better/simpler and therefore necessary.

3. My reason for the changes in Multiple Opponent EL based on individual power.

I decided to split the grouping based on the EL spread. Firstly -8 to 0 and then -8 to +8.

Giving us an EL +8 and +16 spread respectively.

Individual EL -9 or worse opponents have a notably weakened impact on proceedings. Whereas EL -17 or worse opponents have virtually no impact on proceedings.

The analogy is of course Humans versus a Tank. No matter how many you throw at the Tank you won't win.

So at a certain point additional numbers fail to add anymore to EL.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate !

Ugh. Is it really supposed to be reapplied like that? Doesn't make much sense if it is. You're effectively applying wealth levels to wealth levels to wealth levels, which is awfully clunky.

UK. Is this how it is meant to work? Does wealth apply to wealth apply to wealth apply to wealth?

Well what you want to do is match ECL (with Equipment) and Equipment Level.

So if something is CR 7 we know that adding seven levels of equipment will make it ECL 8.4 (7 + 1.4)*, we want to try it with eight levels of equipment.

*8 (ECL) is not the same as 7 (levels of equipment).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

I am aware of them. However, going by the SRD, the slaadi and the group names of the celestials I've mentioned, are also not open content. (Also some of the advanced creatures, such as the mummy lord, are not in the SRD, but some are).

Or has the SRD been changed when I wasn't looking?

Are you sure!? I'm going to have to go over this thing again with a fine toothed comb.