D&D 5E Valda's Spire

Rogerd1

Explorer
Inspired by the thread about Tasha's, how often do people use Valda's Spire - for those that backed it on KS.

Do you only allow parts of it, or everything in it?
 

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teitan

Legend
Inspired by the thread about Tasha's, how often do people use Valda's Spire - for those that backed it on KS.

Do you only allow parts of it, or everything in it?
Right now all we have is the unfinished pdf as the final pdf and book haven’t shipped yet. If you’re looking at 3pp Kobold Press’ Midgard Heroes Handbook is awesome. All their stuff is really. I really like Deep Magic too.
 

jgsugden

Legend
If a player wants to use Third Party materials, I review it and consider it. For classes and heritages, I generally look for a reason why an existing option will not work before allowing it. For example, if a player comes at me with a 3P subclass that could be replicated thematically with existing WotC product, but has different mechanics, I'll advise on how to use the WotC materials to achieve the storytelling end. If they just want the 3P materials because of the mechanics, we'll look at what makes them distinct, consider the balance, and then evaluate whether we can make it work ... but if the only reason to use it is a mechanical one, there has to be a real good reason for why that opion would be added. There are times, such as a really fun mechanic that is not overpowered at all, that I would allow it ... but for the most part it seems like these are 'power grab' situations where a 3P mechanics is overpowered and the players want to use it to have the overpowered PC.
 


Its a pretty good book, and I do allow it.

I think third party content is being severely mischaracterized here. Most professional 3PP is more likely to be undertuned than OP. The publishers of this stuff know that there is stigma against non-WotC material (as shown by @jgsugden) and usually put so much effort into game balance that the options end often end up a little weak. Its a sad state of affairs that so many publishers have good reason to be afraid of this.

I think it's also a mistaken belief that WotC somehow knows better and makes better content than other publishers. That's a fantasy concocted by their marketing team. WotC has no innate superiority; they just own the IP. They often do good design work, but not better and often worse than a dedicated and imaginative content creator outside their corporate shadow. There's no guarantee of balance from anybody; everything should be evaluated for your game.

EN Publishing is a great example of a 3PP that does well-designed, beautiful work, (I love Level Up especially) and does it outside WotC's influence. Mage Hand Press, who publishes Valda's Spire of Secrets, does good work too, even if i feel its sometimes a little underpowered.
 


jgsugden

Legend
Its a pretty good book, and I do allow it.

I think third party content is being severely mischaracterized here. Most professional 3PP is more likely to be undertuned than OP. The publishers of this stuff know that there is stigma against non-WotC material (as shown by @jgsugden) and usually put so much effort into game balance that the options end often end up a little weak. Its a sad state of affairs that so many publishers have good reason to be afraid of this.
...
One thing to note: 95% of the 3P stuff can be under or appropriately powered, but most of the requests I've seen for 3P stuff to be used that have come from players have been for the overpowered remainder. I find that most, but certainly not all, of the 3P inclusion requests come at it from the players that are more worried with being overpowered than they are with being part of the story.

There can be a lot of great stuff out there - and I have played in games that used it to great effect - but if you want to bring 3P stuff into my campaign, which has lore built around historical WotC IP (that has been evolved by decades of games), the addition has to make sense, and needs to have a potential long term place.
 

One thing to note: 95% of the 3P stuff can be under or appropriately powered, but most of the requests I've seen for 3P stuff to be used that have come from players have been for the overpowered remainder. I find that most, but certainly not all, of the 3P inclusion requests come at it from the players that are more worried with being overpowered than they are with being part of the story.

There can be a lot of great stuff out there - and I have played in games that used it to great effect - but if you want to bring 3P stuff into my campaign, which has lore built around historical WotC IP (that has been evolved by decades of games), the addition has to make sense, and needs to have a potential long term place.
I feel for you if that has been your 3PP experience with your players.
 

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