ZEITGEIST Vekeshi Excoriant prestige class

[Andrew Moreton]

It depends what you want really.
Ranger is good if you can pick out a favored enemy you will expect to encounter frequently, if you cannot reliably pick a favored enemy you think will be useful then fighter is better.
Also important is weather you are using the advanced weapon specialisations from Weapon masters player companion and or armour masters player companion.
If you primarily want to use sneak attack and skills then only a small dip is a good idea, 16 levels of rogue and 4 levels of figher gives you BAB 16 and 3 bonus feats spend one of them on accomplished sneak attacker and you have only 1 lost sneak attack dice.

If you are using the advanced weapon or armour specialisation rules then taking enough fighter levels to get weapon mastery but that cuts into your skills and sneak attack a lot. If you are taking a larger dip into figher and decide not to use armour specialisations then Mutation warrior archetype is good .

An NPC in my campaign is taking 3-4 levels of unchained rogue to TWF with Kukri's then 16 levels of Savage technologist Barbarian which boosts dex and at higher levels makes using a gun in TWF effective, which will give my pc's improved melee and also some rogue abilities as the pc's are ranged heavy

This is also somewhat dependent on the rest of your party if you are the only melee you will not get many flanks and so sneak attack becomes very poor, if your party is melee heavy then sneak attack is good, also if your party is low on useful skills then more levels of rogue are good because you can cover a lot of skills which can be very important in this AP. My pc's regret that only one of them has decent social skills , as it limits their ability to split up and conduct investigations.
With your party (I just checked your OP) I would go for something like 13 levels of unchained rogue and 7 of mutation warrior fighter for TWF I would take 3 levels of rogue than 4 of fighter then alternate after that until I had 7 levels of fighter. Bab is 16 at lvl 20 and you will get a lot of attacks.

Knifefighter rogue archetype works well with Kukri's as it gives d8 sneak attack, but d4 with most other weapons but that is rarely a problem.
For RP reasons I would really consider an Eladrin for a Vekeshi mystic probably female, it was my advice to my group not going to explain why as that would be a poiler

 

[Adb0782]

With your party (I just checked your OP) I would go for something like 13 levels of unchained rogue and 7 of mutation warrior fighter for TWF I would take 3 levels of rogue than 4 of fighter then alternate after that until I had 7 levels of fighter. Bab is 16 at lvl 20 and you will get a lot of attacks.

Knifefighter rogue archetype works well with Kukri's as it gives d8 sneak attack, but d4 with most other weapons but that is rarely a problem.
For RP reasons I would really consider an Eladrin for a Vekeshi mystic probably female, it was my advice to my group not going to explain why as that would be a poiler

It just work well with TWF? Bcs this is what i would choose actually, but i think to use it with the build with the half elf and the ECB with the rogue's archetype of swashbuckler that i post below, is that a good idea?

 

[Andrew Moreton]

With TWF you want as many damage bonus that apply to all attacks as possible so Sneak attack is great as it adds up rapidly if you can manage to land all the attacks.
Swashbuckler and Knife master are not compatible however Swashbuckler is a rubbish archetype if you need martial weapon proficiencies take one of your fighter dips at 1st or 2nd level that gets all martial weapon proficiencies without taking a very poor archetype.

Unchained Rogue is great for TWF as it gets dex to damage with both weapons which is very difficult to get by any other means (there is a feat chain but it loads you with penalties)

 

[Antonio Di Benedetto]

ok, so knife master...I choosed the swashbuckler just bcs with the canny tumble + circling mongoose chain I thought that bonus in acrobatic checks could be good, but if It's kinda useless yea the KM looks pretty nice.

 

[Adb0782]

Unluckly for me also mutagenic fighter is banned from my gm in practice we are using just the core book, the advanced players guide, the advanced combat and the unchained classes. That said, im thinking to dip into Urban Barbarian or Gunslinger (which archetype?). But i really dont have any idea on how to start the build lol. For the Barbarian it looks easier, for the gunslinger the idea would be to fight with dagger and pistol in malee, moving a lot, so, always from lv3, start 3/4 lv gunslinger and so start to alternete. My point is: which feats i should get for something like that? I didnt see many builds like this around so i suppose is not a worth choice, isnt it? Better the barbarian? Also some dip in vivisectionist i thougt could be good, but im not sure.

 

[Andrew Moreton]

I think you need to decide what you want your character to do, then you can look at classes and levels. Multiple classes in pathfinder is often a bad idea , it can work for some martial builds but even then it is not guaranteed. Write down in 3 (or 4)points what the key things you want the character to do are.
For instance
1) Primary Melee combatant/Primary Ranged/Primary Skill i.e what is most important the character be able to do
2) Style i.e TWF with Kukri
3) important secondary features (able to cast a few or specific spells, good at sneak attack , able to paint themselves blue and charge naked into melee, , is a goblin with a bat called Manual) that sort of thing probably 1 or two of these

When you know what you want and what is optional then you can look at specific builds. I can knock up a few rapidly as I use Hero labs and currently an on long term sick so unless it's a bad day have spare time

 

[Adb0782]

Well, i started with the idea of a malee with TWF, one is a ranged weapon and one a sword or anyway a typical malee weapon but its not a must, even 2 daggers will be ok if with gun he lose too much (i dont like the idea of 2 ranged weapons), i just like the idea of a deadly sneak attack with sword (dagger or whatever) and than shoot some other enemy positioned more far away in the same turn (with a gun or whatever, the technologist path in zeitgeist maybe can be helpfull). That said I would like to focus on sneak attack (its possibile to sneak attack even with a pistol i think if at the right distance, isnt it? I want to focus on SA bcs in the group a barbarian a druid and his wolf can give me many chances to flank) and move a lot (so acrobatics and possibily stealth), spells arent important, i just think to use wands to buff my saves, skills i need some bcs im the one in the group that have the chance to get some usefull skills. The first lv must to be human unchained rogue as we already played a short adventure, but i can change my stats, weapon, equip, skills and feats till thursday, as the DM know about my misreading about canny tumble lol.

Thanks a lot anyway.

 

[Andrew Moreton]

Ok that gives us a solid baseline.
For gun and melee shooting one of the best archetypes is for the barbarian
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/co...izo-barbarian-archetypes/savage-technologist/

It is from the High tech sourcebook but works well in Zeitgeist with it's steampunk style and does sword and gun well (it gives Dex to damage for guns after 5th level ).
There are 2 problems with using swords and guns in melee
1) Reloading you need a free hand to reload and that means either either a prehensile tail (or similar) or no weapon in the off hand. This can be mitigated by using a revolver but it is a GM call if they are available in Zeitgeist. I have made them available but only from nor risur sources.
2) Using a firearm without either the Sword and Pistol Feat, or Savage technologist (or improved point blank shot) triggers attacks of opportunity

Also sneak attack with ranged weapons is unreliable you need to hit flat footed enemies , you can't get flanking so that means stealth, suprise or invisibility.

This means 2 builds

First build uses Savage technologist barbarian
1 Unchained Rogue (Knifemaster)
2 Barbarian (Savage Technologist)
3 Barbarian (ST) At this point you can use guns and melee without provoking AO
4 U Rogue
5 U rogue - Dex to damage with your melee weapon of choice
From here interchange levels of U Rogue and ST Barbarian until you have 5 levels of Barbarian
Feats
Two weapon fighting
Piranha Strike/Power Attack
Deadly aim
Point Blank shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot (only if you can get revolvers)

The other build without Savage technologist will not be able to use guns in melee until level 11
1 Unchained Rogue(Knife master)
2 Gunslinger (Pistelero)
then alternate levels until you have 5 levels of Gunslinger which gives dex to damage with guns

At level 11 you take the Sword and Pistol feat so you must have Point blank shot, rapid shot, two weapon fighting and snap shot by this level, that leaves you 1 or 2 other feats so pick them carefully

 

[RangerWickett]

Sword *or* gun is an option if you want to use a bayonet. But it's not dual wielding.

 

[Antonio Di Benedetto]

well while the build with savage technologist its great and really what I would like (as the problem of reload the pistol is solved by the trait of technologist in zeitgeist, that gains a contraction that can reload the weapon in his place). I cant find the savage technologist in the rule books we r using (core, advanced player guide, ultimate combat, zeitgeist path and unchained classes). So im pretty sure my Dm dont allow me to do that. The multiclass with gunslinger also allow me to hit and shot but probably from 11 lv its too far, as I need many feats pretty useless if i cant use ranged weapon. With a ranged weapon that its not a firearm I suppose I cant build anything with TWF as I ll have some malus, so ill probably choose the malee with 2 malee weapon, move a lot with acrobatic and stealth and focus on sneak attack. If he have something alchemic would be nice as for zeitgeist it really fit perfectly, but its ok even without.