ZEITGEIST Vekeshi Excoriant prestige class

[Antonio Di Benedetto]

I'm also considering this:

1) UR: TWF + Quick draw
2) PISTOLERO
3) UR: Opening volley + surprise attack
4) UR
5) P: point blank shot
6) UR: weapon training (pistol)
7) P: Dodge
8) UR
9) P: mobility + canny tumble
10) UR: Spring attack (combat trick)
11) Pistolero: circling mongoose
12) UR
13) UR: rapid shot + clustered shot
14) UR:
15) UR: Deadly aim + double slice
16) UR
17) UR: improved TWF + two weapon rend
18) UR
19 UR: offensive defense + improved critic (pistol)

The idea is to start the first attack from ranged weapon (even shooting 2 pistol at same time) than go into melee (probably charging from lv 4, just moving from lv 8) fight and continue getting bonuses to hit with canny tumble and circling mongoose. In this way my first ranged attack should be considered always like a sneak attack, i get +4 bonus to hit and than I can move for provoke attacks of opportunity with canny tumble and circling mongoose for boost my chances to sneak attack in malee also, as its much more easy sneak attack from malee. Do u think something like this gonna work? Do u think I should change or move in a different position some feats?

 

[Andrew Moreton]

I think Dodge , Mobility and Spring attack are 3 wasted feats. They don't work with TWF so with spring attack you can move and then get one attack although Scout probably gives it sneak attack so it is better for you than anyone else but for 3 feats it is massively underwhelming.

I don't see Improved two weapon fighting on there until massivly high level , it is useful from 7th level onwards, also I Would take deadly aim earlier gun attacks hit a very low AC so the penalty from deadly aim has little impact and the bonus damage is very good as bonus damage on firearm attacks is hard to get Replace Dodge with Improved TWF and move point blank shot to later and replace with deadly aim. Also once Mobility and Spring attack are gone you can move improved critical up to a better position

 

[Antonio Di Benedetto]

From what u said me I build this:

1) UR: TWF + Quick draw
2) PISTOLERO
3) UR: Opening volley + surprise attack (or better: combat trick: improved init?)
4) UR
5) P: deadly aim
6) UR: rogue talent: c. Trick: double slice
7) P: ITWF
8) UR
9) P: weapon focus (pistol) + point blank shot
10) UR: precise shot
11) Pistolero: clustered shot
12) UR
13) UR: improved critic + twrend

In this way i give up aoo of snap shot (that r just same a normal aoo with the sword) and i can't shot while in malee, but I should boost my chances to sneak attack. The sword and pistol feat its really interesting and probably more near to what I want, but at same time I can't use a pistol in malee till lv 9 that it's kinda far, I need a long chain of feats and sneak attack have no boost to hit.

Ps I'm searching for space to put rapid shot somewhere...i replace weapon focus? Or I can also put improved critic at lv 9 replacing weapon focus as u said me it's kinda easy to hit with firearms.

 

[Andrew Moreton]

I think Improved initiative is better than suprise attack, you often won't get a surprise round but with improved initiative you will usually act before at least some enemies and in the first round everyone is flatfooted until they act so you can sneak attack the slowest enemy.

You only needed Weapon focus pistol for Snap shot without that drop the feat and take rapid shot more useful but only if you have double barrelled pistols or revolvers however your GM will probably relent and let you have a revolver because there are NPC's carrying them. You may have to loot if from their dead bodies but they certainly exist

 

[Adb0782]

At least u think its better and stronger the sword and pistol one or this build without snap shot and sword and pistol? Bcs at least i like both, i just thought the sword and pistol needs more levels for become competitive, am i wrong?

PS double barrelled pistols it shouldnt be a problem, i can buy even 2 of that when i get money, revolvers i need to find it in some loot.

 

[Andrew Moreton]

I think both builds work, although you are right the tactics will be the same until the sword and pistol feat comes on line, I would go with whichever you think is most cool/fun

 

[Adb0782]

ok, and for both the best archetype is scout? bcs i was thinking that as with the scout i need to charge or move for sneak attack, ill probably have few chances to TWF. What i can put if i give up TWF, double slice, ITWF and TWR? What weapon i can use? It can be worth it to use just a two hand weapon?

 

[Adb0782]

1) UNCHAINED ROGUE (scout):improved initiative + Quick draw
2) PISTOLERO
3) UR: Opening volley + combat trick: precise shot
4) UR
5) P: deadly aim
6) UR: rogue talent: c. Trick: point blank shot
7) P: vital strike
8) UR
9) P: clustered shot + bonus talent: rapid shot
10) UR:
11) Pistolero: improved critic
12) UR
13) UR: improved precise shot + improved vital strike

If i give up TWF i can build this that looks better. what u think?

 

[Andrew Moreton]

Again vital strike is a dreadful feat it is passable for a fighter with feats to burn and a two handed weapon and good for a druid who plans to fight as a hippo or Tyranosaur for everyone else it is rubbish
On a single standard action attack you get 1 extra d4 or d6, when for a rogue to do damage they want to get as many hits as possible and add sneak attack to each (remember bonus damage and dice are not mutiplied on crits unless you are a mythic trickster), with TWF when making a full attack which is something you can manage after a suprise round or by flanking (flanking is the way to get sneak attacks) you get either 1 or 2 extra attacks , as well as your basic iterative attacks for a max with haste and greater TWF of 9 attacks even if only 2 of them hit that beats vital strike dead on its feat.

Wild shaped vital striking size boosted druid goes from 4d8 to 32d8 with greater vital strike and that is about the only time it is worth it.
You go from d4+N + 8d6 to 4d4+n +8d6 avearge 30.5 to average 38 assuming an 11 or less to hit (below is the same number but with TWF penalty you average 19 damage
With the haste sneak attack assuming 13 or less with the primary attack you get 4 hits at 13 , 2 at 18 , and 4 at 20 with this you average 80.5 you will be better full attacking rather than vital striking normally so you only vital strike after a move action into a sneak attack which is probably less common that a full attack so the maths says TWF for rogues. Improving the +N is hard for you you are going to get dex to damage and weapon mod so a max at 20th level of +17. Power attack helps with that but your strength is to low and the dex equivlant of piranaha strike is of course not available to you.

I won't be answering any questions after tuesday due to a combination of holiday and surgery so finalise your design before then

 

[Lylandra]

Just one quick question: Will your sorcerer be your "face"? And are you going to try to use only one "talkative" character?

I'm just asking this because Zeitgeist is *not* combat-heavy and everyone might want a certain amount of non-combat niches. It has some awesome combat, yes, and some of the encounters can be tough. But don't do the mistake of focusing all characters on combat/combat utility.