Very, very sad university news

[HeavenShallBurn]

But you seem to be missing the point - after they arrived (Again, don't listen to the media, I know someone who was THERE!) they realized it was not a M/S, and caught a suspect, that suspect, 1) fit the description, 2) resisted arrest and 3) failed to co-operate - OF COURSE THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD THE RIGHT GUY!!!! If you listen to the media espousal of what happended, then yes, the argument makes sense, but they have it wrong, as usual.

Disagreement does not mean I missed the point, it means I believe your point is not valid. They had two bodies on the floor, they realized it was not a murder/suicide. At that point they have an armed person who's already killed on the campus. You don't look for suspects you send out patrols looking for someone ARMED, even if you walk right past the suspect if he's not armed you can always come back later. The first thing is to ensure you don't have a loose shooter, then you canvas for suspects.

And as far as their original suspect put twenty people in a row at least one will meet the description. And given my own experience of police attitude almost anyone they consider a suspect is going to be "resisting" or not "co-operating" no matter what actually happened.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Blacksburg, not Blackburn.

And a guy found on a girl's floor of a dorm early in the morning is in a minor amount of trouble, so prior to knowing what had happened, I imagine he would be a little jumpy when the police leapt on him. West AJ had several rapes when I was a student there, so the police take things happening there very seriously. A guy visiting his girlfriend overnight would be breaking the rules and likely to be pretty defensive.

 

[Umbran]

Disagreement does not mean I missed the point, it means I believe your point is not valid. They had two bodies on the floor, they realized it was not a murder/suicide. At that point they have an armed person who's already killed on the campus. You don't look for suspects you send out patrols looking for someone ARMED, even if you walk right past the suspect if he's not armed you can always come back later. The first thing is to ensure you don't have a loose shooter, then you canvas for suspects.

I am pretty sure what you describe is not standard police procedure, for good reason.

Your typical violent criminal kills for a very specific reason, in a very specific context. Outside of that context, they don't hang around waiting to be found with their gun hanging out. By the time the cops get there the criinal is gone, the weapon hidden.

Virigina Tech is a huge campus (the drill field in the middle of it is 22 acres by itself), and there's tens of thousands of people there. We are talking serious needle-in-a-haystack time. The police simply don't have the manpower to cover that kind of area in an effective blanket - given reason to believe that the criminal isn't in the immediate vicinity, they stand a much better chance of finding him with information than with random search.

We must remember that what happened at Virginia Tech is extremely atypical. We should not be suggesting that tactics to deal with this particular situation should be the normal procedure.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I am pretty sure what you describe is not standard police procedure, for good reason.

Not standard procedure, but not necessarily for any reason other than inertia and ingrained behavior.

Your typical violent criminal kills for a very specific reason, in a very specific context. Outside of that context, they don't hang around waiting to be found with their gun hanging out. By the time the cops get there the criinal is gone, the weapon hidden.

Ultimately I think this is just a difference in the way we favor law-enforcement working overall. The victims are dead, a few hours doesn't matter to them, and rounding up suspects without physical evidence is usually the first step to a railroaded trial and another statistic for the innocence project. Since most killers aren't going to kill again and will have ditched their weapons they aren't a continuing threat no pressing need to pick them up immediately exists. If there's any evidence you can get them later when you round up the usual suspects and it won't be a major issue. Whereas an armed gunman on premesis is extremely volatile. I won't say it's easy or even that there's a good chance of success, but if they don't even make the attempt they're negligent.

Virigina Tech is a huge campus (the drill field in the middle of it is 22 acres by itself), and there's tens of thousands of people there. We are talking serious needle-in-a-haystack time. The police simply don't have the manpower to cover that kind of area in an effective blanket - given reason to believe that the criminal isn't in the immediate vicinity, they stand a much better chance of finding him with information than with random search.

Simply put I do not honor the concept of forgiveness when a matter is so agregiously severe, if the standard procedure fails in the most unlikely circumstance it still fails. And those involved must still suffer for the failure. It was their obligation to make the attempt even if they failed. And they jumped to a conclusion and began investigating the incident based on an entirely false understanding which resulted in many further deaths. Some mistakes are so serious you may never be allowed another one.

We must remember that what happened at Virginia Tech is extremely atypical. We should not be suggesting that tactics to deal with this particular situation should be the normal procedure.

Absolutely it's an almost preposterously rare thing to happen. I just find that police procedure in general is based on things that I do not agree with and that the insistence to immiedately rush out and begin questioning people and building theories before they get any physical evidence back is counterproductive and not conducive to actually figuring out what actually happened.

 

[Nyaricus]

Liviu Librescu, the VTech professor and Nazi holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself for the safety of his students is now my personal hero. What a brave, selfless man.

My grandmother was telling me about that when I got home from work. What a terrible way to go - but did he ever go out with honour. Am amazing sacrifice, but a sad ending to an obviously arduous life.

Also, I get the weekly email This is True. I hope he gets their weekly "unsubscriber" nomination

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I disagree. I think Prof. Librescu went out in a grand fashion and I doubt he'd find that a sad way to go at all. He made a very conscious choice to trade his life for his students and give them one hell of a final lesson.

Horrible things happen in life -- something a Holocaust survivor would know better than any of us -- the most important part is how you live that life, whatever it's filled with along the way.

 

[Nyaricus]

I disagree. I think Prof. Librescu went out in a grand fashion and I doubt he'd find that a sad way to go at all. He made a very conscious choice to trade his life for his students and give them one hell of a final lesson.

Horrible things happen in life -- something a Holocaust survivor would know better than any of us -- the most important part is how you live that life, whatever it's filled with along the way.

mmm, I see I didn't really phrase that right - I was trying to imply something more along the lines of what you were saying. It's just such a tragedy that someone who was obviously filled with such honour had to die. But indeed, it was a grand fashion in which he did so, by holding the door against the madcap with the gun while his students jumped from the windows.

Damn. So many people dead. It's so hard to comprehend the scale of this deed. I was only 13 or 14 when 9-11 happened, so it never really sunk in for me then. Now, this new killing is really hitting me

--N

 

[Krug]

This article about the victims really hit hard.

Henry Lee, 20, a freshman from Roanoke, Va., had achieved much despite significant odds. He was born in China as Henh P. Ly and his parents came to the United States when he was in elementary school, said Susan Lewyer Willis, the principal at William Fleming High School, who said he changed his name to Henry Lee when he became a citizen last year.

In high school, in addition to working at a Sears store, he was such a diligent student that he won nearly all the awards in his senior year, including the Burger King award, which entitled every classmate to a card with Mr. Lee’s picture on it that could be exchanged for a free Whopper.

As salutatorian, he was asked to give a speech but was so nervous that he had to be coaxed into it, Ms. Willis said.

“He said to them,” she recounted, “ ‘Imagine sitting in class not knowing the language. Now I am No. 2 in my class.’ It was such a proud moment.”

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I was trying to imply something more along the lines of what you were saying. It's just such a tragedy that someone who was obviously filled with such honour had to die. But indeed, it was a grand fashion in which he did so, by holding the door against the madcap with the gun while his students jumped from the windows.

Indeed it's always a sad thing when such a good and honourable person dies. In this case he died in the most honourable possible fashion, saving the lives of others with the cost of his own. Whatever afterlife he goes to he will be welcomed with pride.

Furthermore the other professor killed was the leading researcher of muscular distrophy, the very top of the field. No one is sure what will be done, whether their work will continue. The fight to end muscular distrophy may have been set back by twenty years by this single act of pointless violence.

 

[jaerdaph]

I really wanted to go to Brooklyn today and try to pay my respects to Dr. Librescu and his family before his body is flown to Israel for burial, but I'm stuck in my apartment waiting for the super to assess the damage to my bedroom ceiling (three days later) from the nor'easter this past weekend.