D&D 5E Volo's 5e vs Tasha's 5e where do you see 5e heading?

[Oofta]

None of the previous editions lasted forever.

Sooner or later, WOTC stands to make a lot more money by releasing a new edition. The faster they keep releasing power creep content, the sooner that will have to be.

In previous editions we had new rules that did basically the same as what previous things did but were flat out better. I don't see that with 5E, other than perhaps the fiddling they've done with the Ranger. I think the decision to not do a book of the month with PHB number n was one of their better decisions.

So I just don't see much evidence of a new release anytime soon. As we know, 2020 was the best year ever. Odds are that 2021 will do even better. Nothing can grow forever, but there's a ton of room for growth if they can continue to penetrate markets that were previously not an option.

 

[ph0rk]

Odds are that 2021 will do even better.

With travel and restaurants opening up again? Not likely. Will WOTC panic if they have a down year? Will Hasbro?

 

[Blue]

Didn't say it was more rigid than older editions.

Actually, you did, at 12:26 today. When I said there was plenty of ideas from earlier editions, you said that they couldn't be implemented in the way fans want because 5e was too rigid.

You know, when you need to try to disavow your own points because they have been proven wrong, you should give up while you're behind.

Eh, you're stuck on your beliefs as I am mine, I don't think we'll manage to convince each other.

 

[Minigiant]

OK. Well, I think they are adding things, just not the things you want, which sound like more crunchy bits. I am curious, also, to see what they might do with the hypothetical (I think, likely) revised core rulebooks. That would be the opportune time for revisions, if not "major modules."

The difference is I don't see that book coming. I'd like a 5.5e. I'd like some new classes and classrevisions. I'd like some genre specific monsters, traps, and items. I'd like some dives into new setting fluff and crunch.

I just don't see them coming based on how TCOE was scructured and Ravenloft being an old setting.


I watch sports. Just because you are fine now doesn't mean you lack flaws that can pull you down in a few years.

 

[Mercurius]

The difference is I don't see that book coming. I'd like a 5.5e. I'd like some new classes and classrevisions. I'd like some genre specific monsters, traps, and items. I'd like some dives into new setting fluff and crunch.

I just don't see them coming based on how TCOE was scructured and Ravenloft being an old setting.

We'll continue to see new settings, as we have over the last few years with Ravnica, Theros, and Wildemount. By "new" I mean to D&D, which in my mind counts as new.

And yeah, we differ on 2024. I think we'll see revised core rulebooks, somewhere in the 5.3 to 5.5 range. They'll look to make them backwards compatible--so no major structural changes--but with more options and revamped classes and races. I mean, why wouldn't they?

But as for new classes, I think it is clear that 5E is expanding class options not through new classes, but through endless sub-classes. I don't think that will change. Classes are the archetypes and subclasses represent variations on the archetype. It works fine, I think, for providing a wide number of options.

I watch sports. Just because you are fine now doesn't mean you lack flaws that can pull you down in a few years.

Sure, but I think the reason you're getting a lot of pushback about this is that you're seeing flaws which most don't see, or if they do, don't see them as problematic as you do.

Also, as far as sports is concerned, most players decline slowly. The Albert Pujols' of the world are the exception. And, in hindsight, you can look back and see signs that decline is imminent. Do we see any such signs now? I don't.

The biggest problems WotC have, as I see it, are:

1) What to do with their success? The temptation is to try to keep on expanding--that is the way of capitalism, after all--but sometimes it isn't such a good thing. Will they over-extend themselves? And related to this, how will extending into film and tv impact the game?

2) The ongoing culture war around tradition vs. identity politics/social theory. I think this relates to Tasha, at least as far as certain aspects of what is presented (e.g. race/heritage). How far will WotC go in trying to please those that want certain changes, and what will the cost be?

The first is a good problem to have. To use a sports analogy, it is like having too many good starting pitchers. The second is tied into larger socio-cultural issues, and will likely be tied to however our culture continues to morph. I'm also not convinced it isn't mostly a problem among a small group of people on the internet.

But the point being, I don't think "too little or bad crunch" is one of their biggest problems.

 

[Minigiant]

Actually, you did, at 12:26 today. When I said there was plenty of ideas from earlier editions, you said that they couldn't be implemented in the way fans want because 5e was too rigid.

You know, when you need to try to disavow your own points because they have been proven wrong, you should give up while you're behind.

Eh, you're stuck on your beliefs as I am mine, I don't think we'll manage to convince each other.

You didn't understand what I meant.

You couldn't stick the arcane trickster in the rogue class in older editions. You can in 5e..
But you can't stick the truenamer in the wizard class in 3e, 4e, or 5e.You can't do it in 5ee because wizard subclasses are maybe 20% the fluff, crunch, and power of the class. There's no room.

So when WOTC tried to jam truenamer in the 5e wizard, the fans rejected it. Not because they didn't want the truenamer, they didn't want it in the wizard. So that idea is now gone.

 

[Oofta]

With travel and restaurants opening up again? Not likely. Will WOTC panic if they have a down year? Will Hasbro?

It had double digit growth since it's release. Growth will likely be slower, but that's shouldn't surprise anyone.

Feel free to throw out baseless speculation but I don't see any reason to continue the discussion.

 

[Marandahir]

They have should zero desire to revise anything or make any major modules that alter 5e.
They won't even give use an arcane half caster class.

They already gave us an arcane half-caster. It's just that the other half is rogue, not half-fighter. It's called the Artificer, and there are 3 different products you can buy for the full class in, so go buy one of them if you want to play it. At least two official subclasses for Artificer are front-lines martial characters too, so you'll just have to get used to the concept of magic swordsman being either 1/3 caster Eldritch Knight, fullcasters Hexblade or Bladesinger or Valor/Swords Bards, or 1/2 caster Battle Smith or Armorer (or Forge Adept, if you pick up the creator's-fanon DMs Guild release Exploring Eberron). What more do you want for a Magic Knight? You've got at least 7 different ways of making a Swordmage, and I've probably forgotten a few.

So when WOTC tried to jam truenamer in the 5e wizard, the fans rejected it. Not because they didn't want the truenamer, they didn't want it in the wizard. So that idea is now gone.

Regarding Truenamers, the idea is NOT gone. WotC revived the Archivist artificer concept as the Scribe Wizard. They revived the Circle of Twilight Druid as the Twilight Domain Cleric. The Primeval Guardian Ranger as the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. The Giant Soul Sorcerer as the Rune Knight Fighter. The Scout Fighter (which itself was a revival of the earlier UA of a non-magical Ranger) as the Scout Rogue. The Revived Rogue got split into the Phantom Rogue and the Revived ancestry in VRGtRL. The Cosmic Sorcerer was never even playtested as UA, but was a very popular 4e subclass. It's found a home recently as the Circle of Stars Druid. Same thing with the Warden -> it's the Oath of the Ancients Paladin, now. If a concept didn't work in a particular iteration of UA, it doesn't mean it's gone for good, it means it goes back into the idea pool to return potentially in a different way.

Or modules to play as awakened animals with all the animal equipment and enhancements.
Yeah. In 6e. Because that not how WOTC currently have been acting. Just because a whole lot of people want it doesn't me we get it. Or the Beastmaster would have been redone or we'd get psionic classes.

Regarding awakened animals, the WotC devs specifically mentioned on their podcast - AND IN THE TEXT OF THE BOOK - that the 3 NPC classes were designed in such a way that they could very well be animals. That Warrior? It could be your loyal pooch. And on the podcast, they talked about playing as one of those characters full time, since it's a stripped down and streamlined character that can still function well enough in a party setting. So yes, go ahead and play that awakened animal; you have the rules options to do so.

Or of course you could just play a Druid who is a reverse Animorph and is an awakened hawk but can shapeshift into a human. Or you could play a Beast Master Ranger and have fun playing both your human and your pooch.

Regarding psionic classes, no one has said it's not coming. It's just that Aberrant Mind Sorcerer serves the need right now. If there's a greater need for a full Psionic class, it'll happen. Maybe in Planescape. Maybe in Dark Sun. Maybe in the next Xanathars/Tasha's.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Who knows what 6e will look like. With the shift away from fixed racial traits, we might see class design be modular as well.
Choose full caster, half caster, or full martial (rogues considered martial). From that chassis, customize by selecting class package, whose abilities are based on the chosen chassis. Radical for D&D? Sure, but not much seems off the table recently.

 

[ph0rk]

It had double digit growth since it's release. Growth will likely be slower, but that's shouldn't surprise anyone.

Feel free to throw out baseless speculation but I don't see any reason to continue the discussion.

You pointed to 2020 being a great year without acknowledging why that was very much not a normal year. If 2021 isn’t as great, the parent company may push for a change.

There is as much base for my speculation as yours. It wasn’t too long ago people thought the origins changes in tashas would never happen, now they have, and the next step is to make them core.

That can’t happen without a PHB 1.1 at the least.

Also: speculation is the entire point of this thread.