Vorpal Crits

[hong]

Of course, neither of those things happen when you crit. Rather than do either of those things, you just use the maximum possible pre-crit value. No randomness involved.

I've never really understood what your point is in this arguement. I really don't see how you get "read a number off the dice without rolling them" from "Roll the dice".

That's why you don't roll the dice, you just treat it as if you had rolled max.

 

[Caliban]

That's why you don't roll the dice, you just treat it as if you had rolled max.

But you don't. If you aren't actually rolling dice, you aren't actually rolling max. and you aren't actually triggering Vorpal.

I'm not trying to be snarky Hong. I just don't see any common sense logic to your position.

Sorry.

 

[hong]

But you don't.

Of course you do.

 

[Caliban]

Of course you do.

Why "of course"?

 

[Victoly]

Right. You obtained the damage from the damage die, and thus you rolled it, using the plain-English vernacular meaning of "roll the die" to mean "get a reading from a random number generator which happens to look like a polyhedral thingy".

No, the "plain-English vernacular" meaning of 'roll the die' means to physically pick up a die and toss it at a surface, expecting it to roll and bounce a bit before resting on one of its sides.

I'm sorry, but when people say the exact opposite of what's true, I have to say something.

The Vorpal reading seems pretty straightforward to me. A crit would max the damage from the attack and would not grant any immediate extra rolls from "max die results", but all of the extra dice you normally get to roll because you crit (from the vorpal weapon and from high crit, for example) have a chance to roll maximum and thus a chance to grant further extra dice.

 

[hong]

No, the "plain-English vernacular" meaning of 'roll the die' means to physically pick up a die and toss it at a surface, expecting it to roll and bounce a bit before resting on one of its sides.

... and by extension, read a number from it, which is what I was saying, yes?

The Vorpal reading seems pretty straightforward to me. A crit would max the damage from the attack and would not grant any immediate extra rolls from "max die results", but all of the extra dice you normally get to roll because you crit (from the vorpal weapon and from high crit, for example) have a chance to roll maximum and thus a chance to grant further extra dice.

Sure it would, because you treat a crit just like any other die roll. You just get max damage automatically.

 

[Caliban]

... and by extension, read a number from it, which is what I was saying, yes?

I think the point we are making is that we don't agree with your "by extension". For those of us who disagree with you, it does not follow.

Sure it would, because you treat a crit just like any other die roll. You just get max damage automatically.

You don't treat a crit like any other die roll, because you aren't rolling dice. If you get to roll extra dice on a crit, you treat those like any other die roll.

I respect your opinion Hong, and I don't think you are trolling. I think you honestly believe what you are saying, but I just don't agree with your basic premise (that you can trigger effects based on die rolls without actually rolling dice).

 

[hong]

I think the point we is that we don't agree with your "by extension". For those of us who disagree with you, it does not follow.

Ah. I was not aware of all those people who roll dice just to while away the hours. I was thinking that people would generally roll dice because they want to, you know, read what the dice say.

You don't treat a crit like any other die roll, because you aren't rolling dice. If you get to roll extra dice on a crit, you treat those like any other die roll.

Sure you treat a crit like any other damage roll. That's why all the other rules for damage still apply to crits.

I respect your opinion Hong, and I don't think you are trolling. I think you honestly believe what you are saying, but I just don't agree with your basic premise (that your can trigger effects based on die rolls without actually rolling dice).

It's entirely consistent with treating crits like any other damage roll, just with max damage automatically applied.

 

[Caliban]

Ah. I was not aware of all those people who roll dice just to while away the hours. I was thinking that people would generally roll dice because they want to, you know, read what the dice say.

Cute Hong.

Sure you treat a crit like any other damage roll. That's why all the other rules for damage still apply to crits.

No, you don't treat it like any other damage roll. You aren't rolling dice. That's kind of the point of a crit in 4e - you aren't rolling for damage, you just get the max damage value. No dice, no rolling, no random number generation. (Unless something gives you extra dice on a crit, and then those dice are treated like any other die roll.)

It's entirely consistent with treating crits like any other damage roll, just with max damage automatically applied.

And that's where those of us who disagree with you differ. Crits are not like any other damage roll. No dice, no rolling, no random number generation, no reading numbers off the dice. I don't look at my damage dice at all when I crit. (With the usual caveat of gaining extra dice on a crit.)

 

[hong]

Cute Hong.

Yes, I am.

No, you don't treat it like any other damage roll. You aren't rolling dice. That's kind of the point of a crit in 4e - you aren't rolling for damage, you just get the max damage value. No dice, no rolling, no random number generation. (Unless something gives you extra dice on a crit, and then those dice are treated like any other dice roll.)

Of course you don't physically roll the dice. That doesn't mean it's not like any other damage roll. That's why all the other rules for damage still apply to crits.

And that's were those of us who disagree with you differ. Crits are not like any other damage roll. No dice, no rolling, no random number generation, no reading numbers off the dice. I don't look at my damage dice at all when I crit.

To be precise, you get max on the dice automatically. In all other respects, it's just like any other damage roll.