Vorpal Crits

[Caliban]

Of course you don't physically roll the dice. That doesn't mean it's not like any other damage roll. That's why all the other rules for damage still apply to crits.

That's exactly what it means. It's not like any other damage roll. It's different from every other damage roll in the game.

 

[hong]

That's exactly what it means. It's not like any other damage roll. It's different from every other damage roll in the game.

It's different in that you get max damage automatically. In all other respects, it's like any other damage roll.

 

[Caliban]

It's different in that you get max damage automatically. In all other respects, it's like any other damage roll.

Why is it like any other damage roll?

 

[Victoly]

... and by extension, read a number from it, which is what I was saying, yes?

Not really. You were using the not-common-English gamer-vernacular version of "roll" which means: determine a number from a possible array with varying degrees of statistical likelihood (or something to that effect). I'll grant that "getting a reading" is implied by "roll the dice", but by no means is that result necessarily numerical. Some games use non-numerical dice, and in the common vernacular we still call that "rolling the dice." Furthermore, if I were to tell you to pick a number between three and twelve, we wouldn't say that you "rolled" it (unless we'd all been playing too much WoW - in which case a strong case could be made for the argument that none of us would be speaking the common vernacular anymore.)

In plain English, "rolling dice" necessarily implies physically picking them up and tossing them, which you do not do when you score a critical hit. Sometimes we use the phrase "rolling the dice" as a metaphor for "taking a chance", but since this is a metaphor it is an exception and wouldn't rightly be thought of as the "common vernacular" meaning of the term - furthermore, that metaphor doesn't necessarily have anything to do with numbers.

/end grammar discussion.

(Really, the "common vernacular" meaning of the term is irrelevant, since within D&D's own definition of the term a "roll" does not take place with a critical hit - see below.)

Sure it would, because you treat a crit just like any other die roll. You just get max damage automatically.

Well, no you don't treat a crit like any other die roll, because it isn't one; you don't roll the dice for a crit. You just mathematically work out what the maximum result of a roll would be, and then you don't roll the dice.

Quoting the PHB, emphasis added:
"Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum result you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage."

Please carefully note that saying you "can" roll damage with an attack does not mean that any roll actually took place for a critical hit. The critical hit rules explicitly state that you do not roll damage.

 

[hong]

Why is it like any other damage roll?

Because all the other rules for damage still apply.

 

[Caliban]

Because all the other rules for damage still apply.

You keep saying this. I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[hong]

Not really. You were using the not-common-English gamer-vernacular version of "roll" which means: determine a number from a possible array with varying degrees of statistical likelihood (or something to that effect). I'll grant that "getting a reading" is implied by "roll the dice", but by no means is that result necessarily numerical. Some games use non-numerical dice, and in the common vernacular we still call that "rolling the dice." Furthermore, if I were to tell you to pick a number between three and twelve, we wouldn't say that you "rolled" it (unless we'd all been playing too much WoW - in which case a strong case could be made for the argument that none of us would be speaking the common vernacular anymore.)

WoW is common vernacular. Trust me.

In plain English, "rolling dice" necessarily implies physically picking them up and tossing them, which you do not do when you score a critical hit. Sometimes we use the phrase "rolling the dice" as a metaphor for "taking a chance", but since this is a metaphor it is an exception and wouldn't rightly be thought of as the "common vernacular" meaning of the term - furthermore, that metaphor doesn't necessarily have anything to do with numbers.

/end grammar discussion.

In the common vernacular, rolling the dice means reading a number off the random number generator. Sometimes, that random number generator can be dispensed with, but that doesn't mean the intended meaning of rolling the dice suddenly becomes unclear.

Well, no you don't treat a crit like any other die roll, because it isn't one; you don't roll the dice for a crit. You just mathematically work out what the maximum result of a roll would be, and then you don't roll the dice.

Of course you don't physically roll the dice

Quoting the PHB, emphasis added:
"Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum result you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage."

Please carefully note that saying you "can" roll damage with an attack does not mean that any roll actually took place for a critical hit. The critical hit rules explicitly state that you do not roll damage.

The critical hit rules state that instead of rolling damage, you get max. This basically means that you do not have to waste time physically rolling the dice, and then ignoring the result. This is still a damage roll, in the everyday sense of the term.

 

[hippu]

i have to go with hong here. according to custserv:

all dice rolls are considered to be the maximum possible roll

which imo clearly states you act as if you had actually thrown the dice and gotten max result...

(yay my first post)

 

[hong]

You keep saying this. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Of course it means what I think it means.

Onward to page 12!

 

[Victoly]

WoW is common vernacular. Trust me.

I'll trust you the day I hear the guy with the hotdog cart at the corner of my street yelling "WTS sausages" and listing his prices in gold, silver, and copper coins.

In the common vernacular, rolling the dice means reading a number off the random number generator.

No.
It.
Does.
NOT!

The critical hit rules state that instead of rolling damage, you get max. This basically means that you do not have to waste time physically rolling the dice, and then ignoring the result. This is still a damage roll, in the everyday sense of the term.

No, it is not still a damage roll in any sense of the word. The D&D rules themselves state that it isn't a roll. You can't claim "well, they mean 'roll' this way in the crit rules and that way in the vorpal weapon rules" without damned good justification for it, which you have not yet provided.