Vorpal Uber Weapons?!?

[Jabba Von Hutt]

And what is wrong with that. Again, wasn't it the intent of the designers to make it so that the clear progression of quality of weapons isn't actually so clear?

I believe they (designers) were talking about initial choice where weapon characteristics (ie high crit, versitile etc), prof. bonuses and weapon damage itself make the choice of weapon more difficult.

And besides that, this is rather focused on getting maximum worth out of that 2d4, and requires a 30th level item. I don't see any reason to say, "no, 2d4 weapons should be worse than 1d12 weapons."

Well by definition of damage done a 2d4 is worse than a 1d12 weapon. Now if you factor in other different weapon properties, than maybe a 2d4 can be better than a 1d12. But if you give them both the same properties by damage alone a 1d12 should be better than 2d4.

 

[DracoSuave]

If you're level 30, even for a weapon that deals a single die of damage... you never roll a single die of damage.

Never.

Unless you kept one of the -really- early level powers.

Even Basic Melee Attack does 2[W] starting at level 21.

So saying that 'most weapons only do a single die' is misinformed when you're dealing with items that -start- at level 30.

It says 'any damage die' at a level when -all your powers- do at -minimum- 2 dice of damage, in a game where you get varying amounts of dice for your damage at lower levels.

It's per individual die rolled, not when maximum damage is rolled.

As for precident for a power refering to rolls of an individual die for damage, look no further than staff of fiery wrath, which allows you to reroll individual dice of damage, rather than the whole thing. It -also- refers to damage by the die.

Vorpal IS that powerful. It's level 30. It's a drop in the bucket.

 

[IanB]

I've already given my answer concerning the treatment of answers from custserv as gospel.

As too "Obviously not everything ends up mechanically equal, but nothing is largely out of line, given the 4W examples provided above." Well according Sceadeau above whose numbers appear correct, a weapon doing 2d4 somehow out performs a weapon doing 1d12 with the same enchantments whereas under normal circumstances it would be impossible to do so.

Why is that a problem?

 

[Jabba Von Hutt]

Why is that a problem?

Are you just trolling?

 

[GoLu]

Vorpal IS that powerful. It's level 30. It's a drop in the bucket.

The funny thing about this (to me, at least) is that I'm coming to 4th edition from Savage Worlds, a game where every damage die is effectively vorpal. It's easy to focus on the potentially infinite damage and forget that most rolls aren't actually going to be all that much bigger than normal.

 

[DracoSuave]

PHB p219: "For example, a falchion (which has a damage die of 2d4) deals 8d4 damage when used with a power that deals 4[W] on a hit."

What is the damage die of a falchion? 2d4.

-Hyp.

Actually the correct term for that property of a weapon, used in the PHB is 'weapon damage' not 'damage die.'

You're misinformed or misinforming.


And as for those who figure the average damage for a singular die that explodes is equal to the size of the die?

You're correct, the algebra supports you on that.

This means that a 2d4 vorpal weapon does an average damage of 8 damage, and a 1d12 vorpal weapon does an average damage of 12.

No, the 2d4 weapon does not out perform a 1d12 damage weapon. Stop saying it does, the math does not support you on this.

 

[Jabba Von Hutt]

If you're level 30, even for a weapon that deals a single die of damage... you never roll a single die of damage.

Never.

Unless you kept one of the -really- early level powers.

Even Basic Melee Attack does 2[W] starting at level 21.

So saying that 'most weapons only do a single die' is misinformed when you're dealing with items that -start- at level 30.

So by some miracle the basic melee damage of every longsword does 2d8 after you hit level 21 but every time you give those weapons to your lvl 1 footman he only does 1d8 damage with them. You should get a refund from that blacksmith. You see where I'm going here. The longsword only ever did 1d8 the fact that after level 21 a character does 2d8 is because of "skill". He wields the blade better it's not the blade becomes better.

And yes I do know that magic weapons perform better. The discussion here is that fact that applying the same effect(s) (Vorpal, GoD) on different weapons has an unbalanced effect in terms of damage on some of those weapons whereas I believe they should not nor as anyone given me a reason why they should. Yes, Yes I know "RAW".

 

[RefinedBean]

Mine's Bigger

I suppose, in a level 30 party where two players have two different kinds of vorpal weapons, and are crazy immature, maybe this might become an issue.

But otherwise, a certain magical property affecting various weapons slightly differently is not rocking my world. By that point, I should be too busy...I don't know, trying to dethrone Orcus, or thrust the Nine Hells into the Pure Gateway of Blessed Light, or something.

 

[Jabba Von Hutt]

Actually the correct term for that property of a weapon, used in the PHB is 'weapon damage' not 'damage die.'

You're misinformed or misinforming.

Really his quote seems to imply that it is called damage die.

And as for those who figure the average damage for a singular die that explodes is equal to the size of the die?

You're correct, the algebra supports you on that.

This means that a 2d4 vorpal weapon does an average damage of 8 damage, and a 1d12 vorpal weapon does an average damage of 12.

No, the 2d4 weapon does not out perform a 1d12 damage weapon. Stop saying it does, the math does not support you on this.

Do you mind showing us the math behind this because the post above by Sceadeau certainly shows it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually the correct term for that property of a weapon, used in the PHB is 'weapon damage' not 'damage die.'

You're misinformed or misinforming.

If I'm misinformed, I'm misinformed by the PHB, since the quote "a falchion (which has a damage die of 2d4)" comes from the PHB.

-Hyp.