Vorpal weapons?

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

(yep, vorpal swords get more benefit than vorpal axes. I don't care!)

Then how about adding 6, rather than just setting the new multiplier to 6?

 

[da chicken]

There's something about the instakill nature of the Vorpal blade that just doesn't sit right with me. I wondered if others have felt similarly, and if so how did you change the enhancement?

Most likely you've intuited that vorpal is a badly designed game mechanic. Like harm and miasma, vorpal weapons are equally lethal (or more lethal, in the case of harm) the higher the level or hit dice of subject of the spell. That is exactly backwards of how the game is designed to be.

As you gain levels, you increase your universal protections (AC, saves, hp) shiled you against attacks and damage of all kinds... except for vorpal weapons, miasma, and harm.

The best mechanism for vorpal weapons is to have it function as a save-or-die effect (say, DC = 10 + damage dealt) or to give it a damage cap (similar to kreynold's approach).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

Then how about adding 6, rather than just setting the new multiplier to 6?

Well, that's exactly my point. I'm not concerned about the fact that my method makes vorpal axes and spears less effective on long-term average. To my mind vorpal swords are the, dare I say, iconic vorpal weapons.

Hence the flat x6 multiplier for all weapons.

 

[Taluron]

Our group only allows the Vorpal on natural crits for the weapon type. I.e,., someone weilding a Keen Vorpal LS with Improved Critical, would regular crit on 15-18 and lop off heads in 19-20.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

I'm not concerned about the fact that my method makes vorpal axes and spears less effective on long-term average. To my mind vorpal swords are the, dare I say, iconic vorpal weapons.

You would think that if vorpal weapons were iconic, they would represent a whole new class of weaponry, such as Masterwork, but they don't. Wouldn't it be easier to just rule that vorpal can only be placed upon swords, rather than using it in such an inflexible manner? By "inflexible" I mean the flat multiplier change, as opposed to an increase across the board.

I'm just trying to see your viewpoint on this.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

I'm just trying to see your viewpoint on this.

My *actual* viewpoint is that I've always hated vorpal weapons from the very first time they were introduced into D&D They make no sense in a hit-point system which deliberately ignores hit locations IMO

I thought I might try to do something with the rules to make them work for me in 3e, which is what I did. It's no big deal though, as I think the only case in which they will be encountered is when the PC's start pitching up against Balors - they won't be found as random treasure or created by any PCs.

Cheers

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

My *actual* viewpoint is that I've always hated vorpal weapons from the very first time they were introduced into D&D They make no sense in a hit-point system which deliberately ignores hit locations IMO

Oh, I'm right there with ya'. Nothing worse than being run through a "Gygaxian" dugeon with vorpal weapons in the game.

I thought I might try to do something with the rules to make them work for me in 3e, which is what I did. It's no big deal though, as I think the only case in which they will be encountered is when the PC's start pitching up against Balors - they won't be found as random treasure or created by any PCs.

The reason that I redesigned it is because I hate cheap kills. Nothing is less entertaining for me when one of my NPCs gets an easy-cheap-instakill on a PC, or vice versa. I want the fight to be grand, and that's difficult to do when you have a "Oh cool! Look what I just randomly did!" weapon in the game.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

The reason that I redesigned it is because I hate cheap kills. Nothing is less entertaining for me when one of my NPCs gets an easy-cheap-instakill on a PC, or vice versa. I want the fight to be grand, and that's difficult to do when you have a "Oh cool! Look what I just randomly did!" weapon in the game.

Yep, I think that pegs it pretty neatly for me too.

I guess an alternative way of handling it (totally alternative) is to make vorpal == superkeen.

Thus keen weapons double the crit threat range and are equivalent to the old swords of sharpness, and vorpal weapons triple the crit threat range (although they should cost less if that were the case). Possibly vorpal weapons would be like Keen weapons that where "Bless Weaponed", ie an increased threat range and never needed confirmation for the critical?

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vorpal weapons?

vorpal weapons triple the crit threat range (although they should cost less if that were the case).

Funny you should mention that. I made an enhancement a while back called Razor that did just that (trippled the threat range). I think I priced it at a +3 or +4 modifier. Can't remember which. I replaced it with my latest incarnation of Razor and I don't have an old copy of it. Too bad, I kinda liked it.

Possibly vorpal weapons would be like Keen weapons that where "Bless Weaponed", ie an increased threat range and never needed confirmation for the critical?

That's a really frickin' cool idea, actually! What kind of bonus? Do you think +5 is still good? Myself, I think I'd go with +4. What do you think?

(Damn good idea, dude!)

 

[radferth]

autocrit

Regardless of whether one want to use it to replace vorpal, no need to confirm a crit is a cool mechanic. What would folks suggest the + cost be for that? I am thinking +2 or +3, but that is just off the top of my head (no pun intended).