Vorpal weapons?

[Anubis]

Yup. It's far less reliable than Flaming, which is only a +1 enhancement and effects nearly everything,

*snip*

"Living" wouldn't simplify it in my mind.

How about "anything with a Constitution score"? I think that would simplify it.

I agree, which is exactly why I added the x10 force damage multiplier to mine. The high amount of damage at a +5 cost isn't a problem unless you're using the epic level rules, and like I said, the DMG wasn't designed with the epic level rules in mind at all.

Wouldn't you have to include the ELH when considering this? The ELH is standard for more powerful things, and was even called a Core Rulebook although it isn't marked *on the book* as such. (It's listed as one by WotC.) As such, making it go with the DMG but not the ELH would make the whole thing inaccurate.

 

[Creeperman]

I think I'd do it as follows: The weapon's base critical multiplier is tripled, and all threats are automatically confirmed. I haven't playtested this or anything, but here it goes anyway.

That gets your keen, vorpal longsword wielder to 1d8 (base) + 4 (enhancement) + 6 (22 Strength) + 2 (Specialization) x 2 (base) x 3 (vorpal) for a total of 6d8 + 72 (avg: 99), which isn't a bad chunk of damage for a single attack. The same enhancements on a scythe would come out to 24d4 + 180 (avg: 240), which is quite capable of beheading most opponents in its own right. Add a massive damage save on top of this, and you have a lethal, yet remotely survivable enchantment.

 

[kreynolds]

How about "anything with a Constitution score"? I think that would simplify it.

That sounds better.

Wouldn't you have to include the ELH when considering this? The ELH is standard for more powerful things, and was even called a Core Rulebook although it isn't marked *on the book* as such. (It's listed as one by WotC.) As such, making it go with the DMG but not the ELH would make the whole thing inaccurate.

The ELH is not a core book in any way. It is a book in WotC's core line, but it is not a core book. I don't need to design vorpal in line with the ELH unless I'm using the ELH. Even the original vorpal was far too powerful for the ELH. In fact, even if you look through all of the various books from WotC, you will not find another weapon enhancement that's as powerful as vorpal, not even the ELH. Aside from the ELH, I don't think there's another weapon enhancement that's even a +5. The DMG has already set the precedent for +5 being nasty as hell.

Thinkfully, I've been lucky. A player has yet to get their hands on a vorpal weapon, so thus far, only my npcs have had them, and there have been few of them, I assure you (except for Balors and Solars of course). Don't get me wrong though. I do intend to price it accordingly with the ELH eventually.

 

[Anubis]

That sounds better.



The ELH is not a core book in any way. It is a book in WotC's core line, but it is not a core book. I don't need to design vorpal in line with the ELH unless I'm using the ELH. Even the original vorpal was far too powerful for the ELH. In fact, even if you look through all of the various books from WotC, you will not find another weapon enhancement that's as powerful as vorpal, not even the ELH. Aside from the ELH, I don't think there's another weapon enhancement that's even a +5. The DMG has already set the precedent for +5 being nasty as hell.

Thinkfully, I've been lucky. A player has yet to get their hands on a vorpal weapon, so thus far, only my npcs have had them, and there have been few of them, I assure you (except for Balors and Solars of course). Don't get me wrong though. I do intend to price it accordingly with the ELH eventually.

I agree that it is especially deadly and too powerful for +5. That's why I suggested making it a +10 instead.

 

[kreynolds]

I agree that it is especially deadly and too powerful for +5. That's why I suggested making it a +10 instead.

And if you don't use the epic level rules? What then? Still +10? Also, which vorpal are we talking about? Mine? Yours? The DMGs? (Wow. That's a lot of vorpal. )

EDIT: By the way, I know what you said. I read your post. Also, are you going to address the rest of my post? I think I brought up a couple of good points in there. (man, I just can't type today )

 

[Anubis]

And if you don't use the epic level rules? What then? Still +10? Also, which vorpal are we talking about? Mine? Yours? The DMGs? (Wow. That's a lot of vorpal. )

EDIT: By the way, I know what you said. I read your post. Also, are you going to address the rest of my post? I think I brought up a couple of good points in there. (man, I just can't type today )

Make Vorpal a +10 bonus instead of a +5, and keep it *almost* as is, except make it so that only the natural threat range threatens an instant-kill (it will kill anything with a Constitution score, even if normally immune to criticals), while a normal crit does damage x2 (for instance, a longsword does 2d8 on a crit, but then mutiple that by 2 for final damage, but also include ALL modifiers to damage, including stuff that normally isn't counted in a crit such as sneak attack damage and the like); this makes Vorpal super-deadly, harder to get, and doesn't nerf it while not keeping it TOO powerful.

That version. THAT is a +10, and keeps Vorpal as the best weapon enchantment.

By the way, what part of your post do you want me to address? I figured I was only discussing the Vorpal thing in relation to the rules.

 

[kreynolds]

THAT is a +10, and keeps Vorpal as the best weapon enchantment.

OK. I gotcha now. You would like to see vorpal become an epic-only enhancement, right? This version demands that the epic level rules be used. If you do use the epic level rules, it would cost roughly 2,002,000 gold pieces to have a +1 vorpal weapon. That's almost half the wealth available to a 30th level rogue. A 30th level rogue has Sneak Attack +15d6, but then you still have to factor in Strength damage, enhancement bonuses, etc. Right off the bat, your version of Vorpal is doing far more damage than mine when you multiply the damage by 2 (15d6 sneak attack x 2 = 30d6). So, if yours is a +10, then mine is most certainly lower, or yours needs to be higher.

By the way, what part of your post do you want me to address? I figured I was only discussing the Vorpal thing in relation to the rules.

Nevermind. No offense intended, I swear, but it's not worth the effort. I'm not upset or anything, but I'd rather not repeat myself if I don't have to.

Like I said though, I think you need to take a much closer look at the damage your version of vorpal deals. It's a lot!

 

[CmdrSam]

That gets your keen, vorpal longsword wielder to 1d8 (base) + 4 (enhancement) + 6 (22 Strength) + 2 (Specialization) x 2 (base) x 3 (vorpal) for a total of 6d8 + 72 (avg: 99), which isn't a bad chunk of damage for a single attack.

Uh, that's not how multiplication works in D&D. Some quantity Y x 2 x 3 = Y x [1 + (2-1) + (3-1)] = Y x 4

So you would have 4d8+48, mean 66.

--Sam L-L

 

[Deadguy]

Originally posted by CmdrSam
Uh, that's not how multiplication works in D&D. Some quantity Y x 2 x 3 = Y x [1 + (2-1) + (3-1)] = Y x 4

So you would have 4d8+48, mean 66.

--Sam L-L

I am guessing that Creeperman understands that Sam. I read it as saying that a Vorpal weapon has a multiplier for crits that is literally 3 times greater than normal, so a Vorpal Greatsword is listed as 19-20/x6, for example.

 

[Creeperman]

I am guessing that Creeperman understands that Sam. I read it as saying that a Vorpal weapon has a multiplier for crits that is literally 3 times greater than normal, so a Vorpal Greatsword is listed as 19-20/x6, for example.

Deadguy is correct. I said "the weapon's base critical multiplier is tripled," not "the weapon inflicts triple damage," as you seem to be reading.