Vorpal weapons?
- Thread starter Deadguy
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Deadguy
First Post
One thing that would worry me with the independent power of auto-confirm critical would be its interaction with the various elemental burst weapons. Does the extra +Nd10 damage also get inflicted on every 'critical'? If the answer is 'yes' it does kinda make them burst powers (or indeed any power which takes effect only on a critical) rather more valuable than normal.
By the way, the idea I was toying with for Vorpal was: auto-crit, but also roll for confirmation. if the crit also confirms then roll double the crit multiplier. Would this still be worth +5?
By the way, the idea I was toying with for Vorpal was: auto-crit, but also roll for confirmation. if the crit also confirms then roll double the crit multiplier. Would this still be worth +5?
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
OTOH, burst weapons are fairly underpowered in the first place - for the same +2 that gives you a +d6 damage, +d6+2d10 (for an axe say) on a crit, you could have two elemental enchantments for an always-on +2d6.
kreynolds
First Post
Deadguy said:
I'm not bothered by it. Hell, I don't even mind the Vorpal (my version!) going off on an auto-crit, nor do I even mind letting it fully function with keen and improved crit, but I'm just flexible that way.
Deadguy said:
Yup.
Deadguy said:
Not at all, and only for one reason. You have to remember the original 3rd edition version of vorpal, the one in the books. That set a precedent, one which means that a +5 enhancement should be an instant death power, or at least deadly as hell. Getting to crit your target twice with one crit isn't that great.
I might put something like that at +4, at the most, but I think +3 might be too low.
Deadguy
First Post
I hadn't thought of it that way!kreynolds said:
See, I'm trying to balance things up with the various suggestions I've had. These have varied from the "I don't see what's wrong with it already - I want to be able to kill something with one blow" to the "Just get rid of it!"
Hmmm... I think I might go with making Vorpal weapons simply be ones with an horrendous Crit multiplier. I am veering toward a x9 multiplier, on a natural Crit (i.e. disregrading keen and ImpCrit).
Though I have had one suggestion which was: Vorpal weapons can score Crits on any creature, and against creatures that can normally be Critted, add +3 to the Crit multiplier.
Maybe I should just mull over this some more!
kreynolds
First Post
Deadguy said:
Actually, that's close to how my version of Vorpal works. Vorpal gets its own x10 multiplier, and all of it is force damage. So, if you crit with a longsword, you deal the normal 2d8 longsword damage, plus you deal an additional 10d8 force damage. I did it like this so that the Vorpal would scale depending on the weapon. That way, Vorpal works better on the nastier blades, and does very little, in comparison, on a dagger.
Deadguy said:
Again, sort of like my version. Basically, though you can't actually crit a golem, my version of Vorpal will still activate if you confirm a crit. So, you won't get the normal 2d8 longsword damage for the crit, but you will still get the additional 10d8 force damage.
My Sharpness enhancement is like a weaker version of Vorpal, but it completely bypasses the hardness of any object it strikes.
I've been working on a Razor enhancemnt that is similar to Sharpness, but it bypasses hardness on all strikes, not just criticals. Even the normal weapon damage would also bypass hardness. I'm still tweaking it though.
Dakhran the Dark
First Post
Vorpal / Crit to Kill
IMC, vorpal weapons will automatically confirm a crit when a threat is rolled, and also automatically threaten a kill, which then needs to be confirmed.
This makes the weapon more damaging even if the second roll doesn't confirm, since you'll at the very least automatically crit on every threat. And it would have the same chance of beheading as before as well, if it weren't for my variant critical kill rules -- a confirmed crit to kill doesn't automatically kill, but is resolved using the CdG rules (Fort save at DC 10 + damage dealt). This came about after the third time one of my players managed to take out a bignasty creature with three 19's and 20's in a row...
IMC, vorpal weapons will automatically confirm a crit when a threat is rolled, and also automatically threaten a kill, which then needs to be confirmed.
This makes the weapon more damaging even if the second roll doesn't confirm, since you'll at the very least automatically crit on every threat. And it would have the same chance of beheading as before as well, if it weren't for my variant critical kill rules -- a confirmed crit to kill doesn't automatically kill, but is resolved using the CdG rules (Fort save at DC 10 + damage dealt). This came about after the third time one of my players managed to take out a bignasty creature with three 19's and 20's in a row...
kreynolds version makes Vorpal more powerful than most of the powers in the ELH.
Personally, why not just make Vorpal a +10 bonus instead of a +5, and keep it almost as is, except make it so that only the natural threat range threatened a beheading, while a normal crit does damage x2 (for instance, a longsword does 2d8 on a crit, but then mutiple that by 2 for final damage, but also include ALL modifiers to damage, including stuff that normally isn't counted in a crit such as sneak attack damage and the like); this makes Vorpal super-deadly, harder to get, and doesn't nerf it while not keeping it TOO powerful.
Whatcha guys think?
Personally, why not just make Vorpal a +10 bonus instead of a +5, and keep it almost as is, except make it so that only the natural threat range threatened a beheading, while a normal crit does damage x2 (for instance, a longsword does 2d8 on a crit, but then mutiple that by 2 for final damage, but also include ALL modifiers to damage, including stuff that normally isn't counted in a crit such as sneak attack damage and the like); this makes Vorpal super-deadly, harder to get, and doesn't nerf it while not keeping it TOO powerful.
Whatcha guys think?
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