Vow of Poverty - Exact Wording (Semiexact :P)

[Jack Simth]

There's a workaround for the valuable material components and focuses for spells. Check BoED p.30; you can use your friends' material components to cast the spell (presumably, you're casting it for their benefit rather than yours), or you can use XP to cast the spell instead at a conversion rate of 1 XP per 5 gp.

Two things:

1) That list was for the Divine Focus
2) The passage you're referencing refers to 'expensive material components' in sentence 1 of that paragraph, and the rest acts as a continuation. Not all DM's will consider that clause to also apply to expensive focuses (such as the Divine Focus at 1 GP, or the less mundane ones, such as the Font of Holy Water for Scrying).

 

[Starbuck_II]

If a DM ever did that to me i would for sure leave their game. That is vindictive, targeted and metagaming all rolled into one. If you don't want a VoP character as a DM just ban it. Don't punish the player like that.


Side note: What if a character with VoP uses the snatch arrow feat against a master work or magic weapon??


What if a character with VoP makes and unarmed disarm against a enemies +1 dagger and succeeds, would they lose the feat??

Doesn't apply. You aren't benefiting from the magic weapon. You are allowed to hold stuff, but you can't benerfit from them.
If you used the weapon on an attack: you benefited.

In addtion, Apostle of peace lets you benefit without breaking vow (defensive items only).

 

[Jacob]

Actually, that scenario doesn't trigger the loss: the ascetic in question has not "borrow(ed) a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion...", nor has he acted with volition. Indeed, the ascetic's only act has been to lie on the ground, concussed & out cold.

As I said elsewhere, the feat is poorly written and doesn't make sense RAW:

If a DM ever did that to me i would for sure leave their game. That is vindictive, targeted and metagaming all rolled into one. If you don't want a VoP character as a DM just ban it. Don't punish the player like that.


Side note: What if a character with VoP uses the snatch arrow feat against a master work or magic weapon??


What if a character with VoP makes and unarmed disarm against a enemies +1 dagger and succeeds, would they lose the feat??

Agreed. But that's how it's written. Now, if the Vow of Poverty said something along the lines of 'you can have 10 gp worth of possessions', that'd be a different story. But that's not what they said. Likewise, exactly as written, the Vow of Poverty ascetic has no limit on the number of 50 gp Heavy Crossbows the Ascetic is permitted to have. So theoretically, such an Ascetic could own enough weapons to outfit a sizable army. There's lots of ridiculousness when you use the thing exactly as written. I suspect there might be a reason that particular book says it's intended for mature audiences.I *might*... if I were playing a Cleric of the Sovereign Host, and got a particular feat specific to the Sovereign Host - Worldly Focus.

Others have already made mentions in posts dealing with the first 2 quotes, though I suppose there's nothing wrong with elaborating a little more.

A lot of the VoP deals with common sense. Poverty entails you don't have much, and it should reflect on your character as such. From there, it's DM perspective. In my eyes, no, you may not have 100s of Heavy Crossbows to arm an army. You can use the gold that you've earned with the rest of the party to fund yon army, but you can't buy for yourself period. The moment you do that (or benefit from a weapon you disarm for another, long as we are on it), you make it your possession, breaking VoP.

And yes, you can have a divine focus, otherwise the point of having a Prestige Class capable of Turning is empty, along with the spells it provides that require a focus. Sloppy writing? Maybe. Nothing to get too concerned about. Just have some sense is all. If a DM is going to say otherwise, you really shouldn't be playing his game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And yet I can tell you from the many threads on VoP in which I have posted, there are many who run or claim to run it RAW, despite the demonstrable illogic of doing so.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I just realized...a Druid CAN function with RAW VoP, just so long as the game starts at level 9+.

Even after VoP lets you survive without food, the ability to carry a day's supply of food remains. It never says what food is defined as, other than presumably something your character can safely eat. Now, the druid's he focus is holly and mistletoe, the latter being poisonous IIRC. But! At level 9 Druids get immunity to all natural poisons! So, once at that level, a druid can theoretically eat all the holly and mistletoe he pleases. So you then carry around a pound or so of the stuff as your "daily food stuff." Problem solved!


[sblock](That was of course for humor, the exact RAW interpretation of VoP remains asinine)[/sblock]

 

[irdeggman]

To echo Dannyalcatraz's post.

And from the FAQ

How do the equipment restrictions put on a character
by the Vow of Poverty feat affect class-defining items?
(Examples include a cleric’s holy symbol, a wizard’s
familiar, a samurai’s daisho, and a paladin’s mount.)


The Vow of Poverty feat is very specific about the items
that a character can own while gaining the benefits of the feat
(BE 48). It specifically disallows ownership of masterwork or
magic weapons, and thus a samurai who chooses this feat must
give up the possession of his daisho (his pair of masterwork
weapons). A holy symbol does not appear on the list of eligible
items, and thus a strict reading of the feat would disallow the
item.

A familiar, special mount, or animal companion isn’t a
material possession, and thus a character with Vow of Poverty
isn’t restricted from gaining the benefits of such creatures.
Remember that the Vow of Poverty feat, like most of the
material found in BE, is intended for mature campaigns that are
capable of handling difficult role-playing issues—it’s not
intended for most hack-and-slash games. A cleric who must
give up his holy symbol (effectively preventing him from
turning undead or casting any spell that requires a divine focus)
could be a very interesting challenge for a player who’s “done
it all” and wants to try something unusual.[/b]

And while the intent of the feat and book itself is contradictory the RAW is that a holy symbol is not allowed - but you can borrow one

Pg 20

"One option is for ascetic characters to beg components from other party members, who are probably gainng as much benefit from having the spell cast as the caster is."

So as the Sage pointed out a "strict" reading of the feat dissallows use of a holy symbol (well at least ownership of one).

 

[anest1s]

So they expect you to actually beg an other character to give you spell components? Or they expect you to give up your holy symbol just to prevent you from selling it? Yeah, right... I think they just changed their minds for making this feat in the first place...

 

[irdeggman]

So they expect you to actually beg an other character to give you spell components? Or they expect you to give up your holy symbol just to prevent you from selling it? Yeah, right... I think they just changed their minds for making this feat in the first place...

Vow of Poverty has nothing to do with selling things it has to do with "possessions".

You are not supposed to "possess" anything of value and live a simple, plain, humble and charitable life.

The book is not well written.

It is designed for mature players and DMs though - it is supposed to be a role-playing thing and not a "power up" one.

Because of the mature nature it requires a lot of DM oversight/intervention/interpretation.

 

[Jacob]

*head desk* I am appalled to see a Divine Focus is disallowed due to rulings. And the Apostle of Peace just got a little bit more of a headache to me. So I suppose the next question is...is there a means to bypass this? At all?

By the way, where is this FAQ spoken of found? I believe me and it have to get to know each other a little more...

 

[Jack Simth]

*head desk* I am appalled to see a Divine Focus is disallowed due to rulings. And the Apostle of Peace just got a little bit more of a headache to me. So I suppose the next question is...is there a means to bypass this? At all?

Yeah. In some campaigns. Worldly Focus is a feat from Faiths of Eberron, that lets you cast spells with a Divine Focus without one. You have to be a worshiper of the Sovereign Host to qualify, though ... not that that's necessarily a bad thing, what with the wide variety of domain choices.