D&D 5E Wand of Paralysis in 5e DMG

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
You know what's funny? If I ctrl + f the word 'never' on this thread, it only shows up in the part of your post I've quoted here.
And if I control f the word "correct" it doesn't show up in any of your posts! See how easy a strawman is?
If you can't even accurately restate my stance, I really don't see how we can have a meaningful conversation about it.
Your original stance is that somehow needing an attack roll makes a spell/item/ability worse. There's a lot to suggest that is not the case.
Here's some help regarding what I actually said: assuming a singular build-strategy or a singular party composition is never going to get an accurate sense of what is or isn't balanced well enough to work for the game.
No, what you started out with was "needing an attack roll is a balancing factor", followed by "it's not too likely to work on something with legendary saves because they have a high AC". You continue on with "it's rare for characters to max out their primary casting stat", and "most parties can't/won't boost hit chances".

Assuming a singular party composition is exactly what you are doing here - you're assuming a party composition that has no interest in hitting a monster with a powerful magic item.
You assuming that a character with this wand is going to have a maxed-out casting ability score by 9th level doesn't mesh with the game, which actually doesn't assume you have maxed-out an ability score at 20th level.
According to what precisely? If you're not expected to hit the max, why are there multiple cases where the rules raise the cap when you get a bonus to a stat? All the WOTC pregens that I've seen start out with a 16 or better in their primary stat. You really think that players are not expected to raise that 2 times out of the 5 raises they get (bearing in mind that feats are optional)?
...but items aren't, and shouldn't be, balanced assuming the party configuration that can be a problem party in the first place. There are plenty of parties that can't, or simply won't, be the problem party you describe.

That is actually fairly limited in how many uses you can get out of it, and takes up an attunement slot for exactly the reason that it is extremely powerful.

As I think it is silly to assume a party of players doing everything they can to squeeze every drop of power out of this one item as the point at which the item should be working as intended, since such a party isn't guaranteed (or even likely) to be present so the item would appear to be under-performing in any party not completely optimized for it's usage.
If the item required a save instead of an attack roll, then it would be significantly less exploitable, whilst not reducing it's power in typical situations at all. Niche cases are ignored at your peril... especially when the 'niche' case is such a broad range of situations requiring basic character abilities and the most straightforward build strategy you could possibly have, and a goal that benefits the majority of typical characters.
 
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AaronOfBarbaria

Adventurer
And if I control f the word "correct" it doesn't show up in any of your posts! See how easy a strawman is?
I have no idea what you are even trying to say. I guess you missed that I was pointing out that I never said "never" as you incorrectly were claiming that I had.

No, what you started out with was "needing an attack roll is a balancing factor", followed by "it's not too likely to work on something with legendary saves because they have a high AC". You continue on with "it's rare for characters to max out their primary casting stat", and "most parties can't/won't boost hit chances".
You are continuing to mischaracterize or misunderstand my statements.
Assuming a singular party composition is exactly what you are doing here - you're assuming a party composition that has no interest in hitting a monster with a powerful magic item.
That is entirely false.

According to what precisely?
According to the fact that if it was expected that you put your ability score increases in any particular place that each class wouldn't have a feature every few levels that lets you increase one or two ability scores of your choice, but rather a feature every few levels that would tell you which ability score(s) to increase.

If you're not expected to hit the max, why are there multiple cases where the rules raise the cap when you get a bonus to a stat?
I didn't say that the game doesn't expect that you can hit the max, I said it doesn't expect that every single character ever made will hit the max. Those multiple cases that raise the cap are there specifically because hitting the cap is possible and the designers wanted them to be able to raise it, which has absolutely no bearing on the fact that game doesn't expect you to have hit maximum by any point in particular.

All the WOTC pregens that I've seen start out with a 16 or better in their primary stat. You really think that players are not expected to raise that 2 times out of the 5 raises they get (bearing in mind that feats are optional)?
I really think that players are expected to raise whatever ability scores they want to every time they are given an ability score increase, and that beyond capping scores at 20 without other features intervening makes exactly zero effort to predict where those increases are going and at what level. Those pregens with a 16 or better in their primary stat can easily spend all of even a fighter's ability score increases bringing their other scores upward for the sake of ability checks and saving throws, before ever raising their already high-enough to get their job done well enough primary score.

If the item required a save instead of an attack roll, then it would be significantly less exploitable
It's not actually exploitable.
...especially when the 'niche' case is such a broad range of situations requiring basic character abilities and the most straightforward build strategy you could possibly have, and a goal that benefits the majority of typical characters.
The thinking that you are engaging in results in a very humorous situation for me because I have seen numerous people say exactly what you are saying (ability score increase go into primary score until it is maxed out, then onto others, as the "go-to" strategy) and then complain about saving throws being too difficult to succeed at with non-primary ability scores at higher levels because there is no saving throw progression outside of your proficient saves, when that is a result of their ability score increasing strategy, not the way the game is designed.
 

This is all a moot point, as Jeremy Crawford has tweeted that the attack roll is an error that will be changed in future errata. It's supposed to be entirely save based (and should be a DC 15 Con save).
 





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