Wanting players to take in-game religion more seriously

[Imaculata]

This whole thread is essentially about a DM who wants to bully his players into worshiping false gods.

Clearly not.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If a reallife *player* has no interest in worshiping gods, the DM must respect his or her religious boundaries or philosophical boundaries.

Or ask that player to leave the table. If someone is uncomfortable with the subject matter in any game, then either the game needs to be overhauled to not contain that subject matter, or the player should find a new game. If my concept for a game that I want to run is going to involve topics that might make some people uncomfortable, then that should be clear from the outset, and nobody should sign up if that's not what they want to do.

Many DMs run games based in pseudo-Medieval European fantasy worlds. And in those worlds, religion is usually a big deal. If you can't deal with that, then you shouldn't expect the DM to mis-represent how the world works based on your personal discomfort. The game can continue without you as a player, but it can't continue if the DM loses interest in it.

 

[steeldragons]

No. Don't waste your time trying to "explain" things. The issue lies with Yaarel's completely irrational aversion to make-believe deities in a make-believe world of fantasy monsters and magic in a game of MAKE-BELIEVE!

This thread has shown us, for the first time, his/her seeming refusal or some kind of inability to differentiate between what "players" do in the real world and what "characters" do in the game world. A distinction that is...ya know...central and kind of crucial to the playing of a table top fantasy role-playing [a.k.a. MAKE BELIEVE] game.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If it's done purely in the context of an RPG--if we're playing a game set in a time and place where that was appropriate, and I've agreed to play in such a game--I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with the DM saying "You have to play a character who's a practicing and baptized Christian." (Or whatever other religion was appropriate for the setting.)

But it's also not a viable analogy, because in D&D, you're not being asked to pretend to be part of a real-world religion. There's less baggage.

So, do you have trouble imagining someone who doesn't want to roleplay a white supremacist? Or an elf supremacist? Or a chaotic evil sadist?

Some people have no interest in roleplaying someone whom they cannot relate to and (mildly or greatly) despise.

Edit: I agree with you that declining to participate in the campaign is an appropriate response.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

No. Don't waste your time trying to "explain" things. The issue lies with Yaarel's completely irrational aversion to make-believe deities in a make-believe world of fantasy monsters and magic in a game of MAKE-BELIEVE!

There's nothing wrong with having preferences or aversions.

I don't have mind-altering drugs in the games I run, and I strongly downplay the presence of alcohol, because I don't care about exploring those aspects of the world. I also don't run evil games. There's nothing wrong if that's your thing, but I would simply rather not.

If someone doesn't want to play in games where deities are real, and where society recognizes that fact and everyone acts accordingly, then there's nothing wrong with that. It is going to severely limit the availability of games, though, in the same way as if someone was strongly opposed to killing and didn't want to play in a game where killing was a thing.

 

[Mouseferatu]

So, do you have trouble imagining someone who doesn't want to roleplay a white supremacist? Or an elf supremacist? Or a chaotic evil sadist?

Not at all. As I said, it's entirely his choice where he wants to draw his lines.

What I said is that RPing someone who is/believes in any of those things is not remotely analogous to supporting/believing them as a player--not even in the form of "lip service"--and that there is no bullying involved. The proper response, if polite discussion at the very start doesn't change the DM's mind, to choose not to play. It is not to accuse people of bullying or end friendships.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Wow, this is a great discussion, very helpful to me.

To clarify a bit, most of the comments that annoy me from the players are out of character, not directly to npcs -- which makes it hard for the npcs to react.

I think the best way forward, for me, is to add some depth to the gods that the players can interact with. Holy days, quests, shrines with in game effects, etc. give them a reason to respect the gods.

5e DMG p.23 has mechanical rules for gaining benefits for Piety. DMG p.227-228 has rules for mechanical benefits of Divine Blessings and Charms.

Those might be a good carrot in this case.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You can bring religion into the campaign in small ways that make it more important. If the PCs come to a small town that has a temple the cleric belongs to, it would be expected that the cleric report to the church to discuss local events and messages from the central church. If he does not visit it is bad form and someone would show up to bring them in. Not bounty hunters or such, but locals in the church expecting service to the local leader. Eventually, the locals will not respond well to the party if the cleric does not act accordingly.

You can also bring churches more importance by having the party visit in need of information and not only spells. Churches may act as a library and contain holy texts that need referencing. In order to use them the cleric may need to go to a local village and perform a ceremony like a wedding or funeral. So called 'dues' must be paid to assist before the churches open up and help on their own.

I like the idea of church libraries, and of getting blessings from clergy. Also, just spending time in holy places should have an effect. Depending on the God, even the "sinner" may feel at peace, or happier, or more focused and alert, or wiser, inside a temple or other holy site.

One way to model this is Inspiration, but I disagree with the poster who suggested making it the only way to get inspiration.
If a priestess gives a blessing, give each blessed player an insp die. Don't let it be something they can buy, though. Also the gods might give inspiration when the character does something in line with their dogma, even if they aren't part of their church, and at the same time give a sign so that the character, and onlookers, know that the god approves of the action.

 

[Shasarak]

Back to the topic.

Clerics, Druids and Paladins are the way to go if you want your players to treat the gods seriously. In one of my early campaing in the second edition, one group decided to ignore the god one player had chosen (Chauntea). They were clearly in favor of an other god and the cleric's player was disappointed about that. But one player was particularly adamant on his faithlessness.

I am glad that it worked out for you. Personally I find anyone messing with an adventuring party is just looking for a world of trouble.

 

[Umbran]

The issue lies with Yaarel's completely irrational aversion ....

It would seem to me that "the issue" of the moment lies in you making it personal. Address the logic of the post, not the person of the poster.

Don't make it personal again, please and thank you.