Satyrn
First Post
No it isn't.
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Wanting players to take in-game religion more seriously
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Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
That is what I said. The DM is trying to bully his *players* into paying lip service to his false gods.
I don't see how it is bullying in any way, since the OP specifically asked for ways that were not heavy handed. To me it looks like a simple difference of play style. The OP wants a more Role play focused game, while the players do not. Would it also be bullying in your mind to reward Inspiration to players who actually play their characters, while refusing to give inspiration to those who do not?
Helldritch
Hero
Back to the topic.
Clerics, Druids and Paladins are the way to go if you want your players to treat the gods seriously. In one of my early campaing in the second edition, one group decided to ignore the god one player had chosen (Chauntea). They were clearly in favor of an other god and the cleric's player was disappointed about that. But one player was particularly adamant on his faithlessness.
He started to thank Chauntea for every spell he was given and slowly as time went on, his spells were having less and less effects on the unbelievers and were functioning at full power on the faithful in the group. As it was doom to happen, one of the unbeliever died. As he tried to raise him from the dead, Chauntea appeared in a shared vision between the faithful (but in front of all players). The encounter went approximately like this.
-Why do you want to bring back that faithless soul to your world? Has he not mocked you and Me enough?
-Goddess, he's a force for good. He should be brought back to continue the fight against the evil roaming this land.
-Your forgiveness is a boon to your dedication to your friend. But I see no reason for me to bring him back beside pleasing you. You have been very tolerant of him. Too tolerant for my taste. I shall not bring him back because he mocks ME and MY church. You are one of my favorite, but your friendship with that faithless soul has blinded you to the obvious, He does not believe. Only true believer can receive my blessing. And only if they are furthering the goal of my church. He has had his chance. He decided to mock your beliefs and your church. He shall not be brought back by anyone of my church. And be warned, I want him to go to the after life. You do not mock a goddess with infinite impunity.
The goddess disappeared and the players immediately searched for an other religion to bring him back. The cleric was giving a lot of money to bring him back and he was doing a lot to bring the faithless back. No church wanted to bring him back as the faithless was just that, faithless. They finally found some cleric of Waukeen ready to raise him for quite a substantial amount of money (6 times what was normally recommended). As the faithless was brought back. The cleric of Chauntea lost his spell casting ability.
He found someway to communicate with his goddess through an other cleric of Chauntea.
-I told you I would not like to see your faithless friend brought back. You did not listen. Now you will have to atone for your digression. Your friendship is admirable. Your devotion less so. But as your goddess I give you this chance. Make him a faithful of our church and do a quest this cleric will give you. All earnings of everyone will go to the poor. Only then shall you recover more than 2nd level spells (character was 11th at that time).
The faithless became a faithful of Chauntea, helped the cleric atone with quite a quest and from then on almost all my players have had quite a respectful stance on the power of religion in game.
I simply felt like sharing a small story that happened in one of my games.
Hope you enjoyed and that it will help you.
Clerics, Druids and Paladins are the way to go if you want your players to treat the gods seriously. In one of my early campaing in the second edition, one group decided to ignore the god one player had chosen (Chauntea). They were clearly in favor of an other god and the cleric's player was disappointed about that. But one player was particularly adamant on his faithlessness.
He started to thank Chauntea for every spell he was given and slowly as time went on, his spells were having less and less effects on the unbelievers and were functioning at full power on the faithful in the group. As it was doom to happen, one of the unbeliever died. As he tried to raise him from the dead, Chauntea appeared in a shared vision between the faithful (but in front of all players). The encounter went approximately like this.
-Why do you want to bring back that faithless soul to your world? Has he not mocked you and Me enough?
-Goddess, he's a force for good. He should be brought back to continue the fight against the evil roaming this land.
-Your forgiveness is a boon to your dedication to your friend. But I see no reason for me to bring him back beside pleasing you. You have been very tolerant of him. Too tolerant for my taste. I shall not bring him back because he mocks ME and MY church. You are one of my favorite, but your friendship with that faithless soul has blinded you to the obvious, He does not believe. Only true believer can receive my blessing. And only if they are furthering the goal of my church. He has had his chance. He decided to mock your beliefs and your church. He shall not be brought back by anyone of my church. And be warned, I want him to go to the after life. You do not mock a goddess with infinite impunity.
The goddess disappeared and the players immediately searched for an other religion to bring him back. The cleric was giving a lot of money to bring him back and he was doing a lot to bring the faithless back. No church wanted to bring him back as the faithless was just that, faithless. They finally found some cleric of Waukeen ready to raise him for quite a substantial amount of money (6 times what was normally recommended). As the faithless was brought back. The cleric of Chauntea lost his spell casting ability.
He found someway to communicate with his goddess through an other cleric of Chauntea.
-I told you I would not like to see your faithless friend brought back. You did not listen. Now you will have to atone for your digression. Your friendship is admirable. Your devotion less so. But as your goddess I give you this chance. Make him a faithful of our church and do a quest this cleric will give you. All earnings of everyone will go to the poor. Only then shall you recover more than 2nd level spells (character was 11th at that time).
The faithless became a faithful of Chauntea, helped the cleric atone with quite a quest and from then on almost all my players have had quite a respectful stance on the power of religion in game.
I simply felt like sharing a small story that happened in one of my games.
Hope you enjoyed and that it will help you.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Lets use an analogy.
Suppose there is a DM who is trying to force his players to "pretend" that they are undergoing a Christian baptism.
I assume even you would admit that the behavior of such a DM is abhorrent.
It is the same thing.
It doesnt matter how much "fun" it is for the DM to coerce forced baptisms, for the unwilling victim of this bullying, it is the opposite of fun.
If a reallife *player* has no interest in worshiping gods, the DM must respect his or her religious boundaries or philosophical boundaries. Religious bullying is unacceptable.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Yeah, no. It's nothing of the sort. I'm not paying "lip service" to my friend being an elf. I'm not forcing my players to approve of murder. Worship of a god in-character is no different. It's role-playing. It's 100% make-believe. It is not, by any definition, false worship or "lip service" (which has a specific meaning, for which this doesn't quality).
If you don't like the idea of your character worshiping a god, that's fine, but it's purely an issue of how you want or don't want to pretend. There's no deeper meaning behind it.
Mouseferatu
Hero
If it's done purely in the context of an RPG--if we're playing a game set in a time and place where that was appropriate, and I've agreed to play in such a game--I wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with the DM saying "You have to play a character who's a practicing and baptized Christian." (Or whatever other religion was appropriate for the setting.)
But it's also not a viable analogy, because in D&D, you're not being asked to pretend to be part of a real-world religion. There's less baggage.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Note that the key phrase is "agreed to play in."
If you don't want to play in any setting or game that requires the characters have a religious belief, that's 100% your call. More power to you. But that's your choice, and if it's the choice you want to make, the proper method is to opt not to play that game. It is, however, not remotely bullying for the DM to say "This is what I want out of this campaign," and certainly not worth ending a friendship over.
If you don't want to play in any setting or game that requires the characters have a religious belief, that's 100% your call. More power to you. But that's your choice, and if it's the choice you want to make, the proper method is to opt not to play that game. It is, however, not remotely bullying for the DM to say "This is what I want out of this campaign," and certainly not worth ending a friendship over.
But the OP is not forcing his players to role play being devout religious people's. To stick with your analogy, the OP is offering them a chance to take or ignore that baptism, while acknowledging that the force it is dedicated to might not like them refusing it.
It is about acting like they are actually in this world. You are skipping the "what do you do?" part of the conversation, straight to the DM describing the result, so maybe that is where the issue lies?
Also, this analogy might be going against the forum rules, but I am not sure...
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