Warblade: Worth dipping into Fighter?

[Shreav]

Why not?

I actually just changed my mind. I think I will go and get Absolute Steel Stance rather than Blood in the Water, which is what I was initially going for.

Guess I might take up Stormguard Warrior afterall.

This is good. This is VERY good...

EDIT: Actually, no. I will take Blood in the Water. Seems like I have to give up something else to make use of Iron Heart Aura. Maybe I'll just pick up the aura without bothering with getting the stance.

The stances I'm keen on are:
Hunter's Sense
Blood in the Water
Hearing the Air
Leaping Dragon Stance
Stance of Alacrity

Maybe I should give up Hearing the Air...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

IMO, Blood in the Water is a terrible stance and pretty much requires keen/Improved crit Kukris/Scimitars/Rapiers dual wielded to see much use. And it's worthless whenever you face crit immune enemies.

Even under ideal conditions, you have to wait for the bonuses to accrue to a fair level, by which point the battle is likely almost won anyway.

I really do like Absolute Steel, though. Shame it doesn't stack with boots of striding and springing, but at least you're saving some money there. If you plan to use standard action strikes for the most part, the stance is basically free +2 AC, more importantly.

I would give up on stance of alacrity before hearing the air. Alacrity's great for swordsages, but for you, you really don't have that many maneuvers to be s[amming 2 counters or a counter and a boost each round. Again, IMO.

What was your plan for acquiring these stances, anyway? Warblade only gives 4, and the 2nd one is screwed up, comes at level 4 instead of 5-6 where it needs to be to actually get 3rd level stances (there are no 2nd level stances, so you're effectively stuck with another 1st level one). Ask your DM if he can "fix" the progression or let you delay taking the 2nd stance. If not, think about multiclassing out for 2 levels before Warblade 4 in order to fix the progression (2 non-Warblade levels = +1 IL).

 

[Shreav]

IMO, Blood in the Water is a terrible stance and pretty much requires keen/Improved crit Kukris/Scimitars/Rapiers dual wielded to see much use. And it's worthless whenever you face crit immune enemies.

Even under ideal conditions, you have to wait for the bonuses to accrue to a fair level, by which point the battle is likely almost won anyway.

I really do like Absolute Steel, though. Shame it doesn't stack with boots of striding and springing, but at least you're saving some money there. If you plan to use standard action strikes for the most part, the stance is basically free +2 AC, more importantly.

I would give up on stance of alacrity before hearing the air. Alacrity's great for swordsages, but for you, you really don't have that many maneuvers to be s[amming 2 counters or a counter and a boost each round. Again, IMO.

What was your plan for acquiring these stances, anyway? Warblade only gives 4, and the 2nd one is screwed up, comes at level 4 instead of 5-6 where it needs to be to actually get 3rd level stances (there are no 2nd level stances, so you're effectively stuck with another 1st level one). Ask your DM if he can "fix" the progression or let you delay taking the 2nd stance. If not, think about multiclassing out for 2 levels before Warblade 4 in order to fix the progression (2 non-Warblade levels = +1 IL).

Yeah, that's a good idea. I was struggling with this problem so I took Blood on the Water because I felt it was a better option than whatever else was available.

If I can get Absolute Steel as second stance, it'll make life easier.

 

[Dandu]

Hearing the Air is good. Gives you utility options.

 

[emoplato]

Shreav, from the sound of it you are leaning to be a sort of glass-cannon, which is fine but really nothing from the tiger claw is going to help especially considering that you don't have the weapons to use it. Actually, there is a stance in the iron heart discipline that gives 5/- damage reduction this stacks with any armor/class based damage reduction. They also have counters that allow you to use an attack roll to oppose any incoming attack roll based attack. So you can use your shock trooper up to str. mod. and not have to worry about AC. Besides have you considered lion totem barbarian dip? Pounce as a level one ability and rage of course(extra rage), get mad foam rager able to ignore any single damage, effect, or spell for a round expend iron heart focus and remove any durational spell/effect to yourself. Also battle jump(must be level one though) allows to treat falling from 10 feet or more to be a charge and can double the damage on the first attack. If rage scares you because of the inattentiveness there is a dirty trick you can play, if the DM will allow it, get a weapon familiar, only requires a magical item, basically an intelligent item that has all the sensory skills, knowledge stuff,..etc invest your skill points you get one back for every two put in, but you can actually use its skills with yours. You are cleaving people left and right while say your +2 adamantine breastplate watches your back.

 

[Shreav]

Shreav, from the sound of it you are leaning to be a sort of glass-cannon, which is fine but really nothing from the tiger claw is going to help especially considering that you don't have the weapons to use it.

What do you mean that I don't have the kinds of weapons to use it? Are you saying that I am not using 2WF and therefore am not using Tiger Claw effectively? Or are you saying that I should be using the discipline weapons; kukri, kama, claw, handaxe, greataxe and unarmed strike. Either way, I thought I was using Tiger Claw fine.

Actually, there is a stance in the iron heart discipline that gives 5/- damage reduction this stacks with any armor/class based damage reduction. They also have counters that allow you to use an attack roll to oppose any incoming attack roll based attack. So you can use your shock trooper up to str. mod. and not have to worry about AC.

I'm not worried about my AC because I will be using Wall of Blades, which is what I presume you were talking about. If I take into consideration that the average d20 roll is 10, and then add my +6 attack bonus at level 3 (which is the earliest I can grab Wall of Blades), then I will be better off most of the time. I don’t think a 5/- damage reduction will scale well as I level on. I want to try and take stances which are just as useful as I go on. I can cop an extra 5 damage here and there if I need to.

Besides have you considered lion totem barbarian dip? Pounce as a level one ability and rage of course(extra rage), get mad foam rager able to ignore any single damage, effect, or spell for a round expend iron heart focus and remove any durational spell/effect to yourself.

In Unearthed Arcana, I don’t see Pounce as a level-one ability for Lion Totem. Also, mad foam rager, or any rage ability, does not go well in conjunction with most of my Diamond Mind maneuvers due to concentration checks to determine damage. Also, fatigue for the duration of the entire encounter does not fly well with me.

Also battle jump(must be level one though) allows to treat falling from 10 feet or more to be a charge and can double the damage on the first attack. If rage scares you because of the inattentiveness there is a dirty trick you can play, if the DM will allow it, get a weapon familiar, only requires a magical item, basically an intelligent item that has all the sensory skills, knowledge stuff,..etc invest your skill points you get one back for every two put in, but you can actually use its skills with yours. You are cleaving people left and right while say your +2 adamantine breastplate watches your back.

I've read about Battle Jump. Why does it have to be level 1? Not sure I understood you right. Also, I’m currently CL2, I highly doubt he’s going to give me this kind of familiar advantage over the rest of the group. I know my DM, I know what he’s willing to allow and what he’s not going to allow, lol… Awesome idea, but I need to be real, haha.

[FONT=&quot]Maybe I can slot Battle Jump in there somewhere, though.[/FONT]

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

What he meant was Lion Spirit Totem, which is in C.Champion.

For what it's worth, I disagree with pretty much all of emo's advice. It's all either incorrect (you can do Tiger Claw with one weapon just FINE, tons of "jump and hit for massive damage" options; the level 8 stance for DR 5 / -- is pretty bad; you are NOT a glass cannon with a d12 HD and a good reason to keep a high con score (concentration checks), etc...) And then there's Battle Jump feat (which is really poorly written, IMO) and dipping the Barb for pounce, both of which your DM may not...like (cheesy, in other words).

Barbarian rage isn't so bad for a Warblade if you wait to start it until the battle's been underway for a bit to lessen the odds of fighting with fatigue, but yeah, it's a bad idea if you're doing a lot with Diamond Mind.

 

[emoplato]

What do you mean that I don't have the kinds of weapons to use it? Are you saying that I am not using 2WF and therefore am not using Tiger Claw effectively? Or are you saying that I should be using the discipline weapons; kukri, kama, claw, handaxe, greataxe and unarmed strike. Either way, I thought I was using Tiger Claw fine.



I'm not worried about my AC because I will be using Wall of Blades, which is what I presume you were talking about. If I take into consideration that the average d20 roll is 10, and then add my +6 attack bonus at level 3 (which is the earliest I can grab Wall of Blades), then I will be better off most of the time. I don’t think a 5/- damage reduction will scale well as I level on. I want to try and take stances which are just as useful as I go on. I can cop an extra 5 damage here and there if I need to.



In Unearthed Arcana, I don’t see Pounce as a level-one ability for Lion Totem. Also, mad foam rager, or any rage ability, does not go well in conjunction with most of my Diamond Mind maneuvers due to concentration checks to determine damage. Also, fatigue for the duration of the entire encounter does not fly well with me.



I've read about Battle Jump. Why does it have to be level 1? Not sure I understood you right. Also, I’m currently CL2, I highly doubt he’s going to give me this kind of familiar advantage over the rest of the group. I know my DM, I know what he’s willing to allow and what he’s not going to allow, lol… Awesome idea, but I need to be real, haha.

[FONT=&quot]Maybe I can slot Battle Jump in there somewhere, though.[/FONT]

1. It is B, you only can use certain types of weapons with certain disciplines, their isn't a sword in that discipline.
2. 5/- is pretty significant that is each and any kind of attack, as for someone on the front line. I would take it.
3. I should clarify, it is in the Complete Champion, sorry. As for Diamond Mind strikes the fact is it forces you to rack up massive con. checks and if your DM is inventive enough he will kill those checks. Also it requires you to max Con. at the lack of other useful senses. Finally, you are a warblade while you may recover the fastest you have the least amount manuevers known and readied. Diamond mind has great boosts and a couple of good stances without the massive investment.
4. Because it is a regional thing and "requires" you to have local knowledge I think your DM will allow it so long as he doesn't think the feat itself is overpowered.
In general I think you have a build that is a front line power fighter but you are trying to give it this fencer flare without really having the feats or requirements to do it. If you want more of B, find stuff with fast movement and permits special movements outside of actions, ignore terrain difficulty, combat reflexes, high dex.,dodge, mobility, elusive target, spring attack and agile riposte are good but you have to give up on two-handed weapons and decent armor on a couple of them. I think you should a good set of armor and find stuff to add, protect, and replenish health so you can keep swinging death. Another option would be to dip into Psychic warrior, I don't know many powers however there is a feat called deflective armor in Races of Stone basically all the AC you gain from that piece of armor turns into deflection bonus while psionically focused, also feats that add to that armor and remove some check penalty. Cleave and Great Cleave are good offensive options for this as well.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

1. You can use any weapon with any discipline.
2. Level 8 maneuvers are level 15+. DR 5 is not that great by then. Compare to Roots of the Mountain, a level 3 stance. Gives DR 2, +10 to resist grapples, trips, overruns, and bull rushes, and adds 10 to the DC of tumble checks through your space and the area you threaten. Aside from general Stone Dragon annoyances (must stand on the ground and move no more than 5 ft to keep the stance up), it's actually BETTER overall, and available 10 levels earlier!
3. If the DM's trying to foil basic skill checks you need just to do your thing, the problem isn't the martial discipline!

 

[emoplato]

1. You can use any weapon with any discipline.
2. Level 8 maneuvers are level 15+. DR 5 is not that great by then. Compare to Roots of the Mountain, a level 3 stance. Gives DR 2, +10 to resist grapples, trips, overruns, and bull rushes, and adds 10 to the DC of tumble checks through your space and the area you threaten. Aside from general Stone Dragon annoyances (must stand on the ground and move no more than 5 ft to keep the stance up), it's actually BETTER overall, and available 10 levels earlier!
3. If the DM's trying to foil basic skill checks you need just to do your thing, the problem isn't the martial discipline!

I have the book and it says you really can't, though DM still rules. Hmm, didn't notice it could make an interesting control build. I didn't say the discipline sucks what I am saying is prioritize. In fact I said it has great boosts and stances. In order to get Diamond Mind strikes to work he needs a massive con. check he has the most limited list to know and prepare than either of the other two. If he would base his strikes and counters on his con. checks he would have little room to sneak in anything particularly a much needed wall of blades after use of Shock Trooper.