Warblade: Worth dipping into Fighter?
- Thread starter Shreav
- Start date
B, is option B. Well by RAW it says preferred weapons, okay fine but you still need to look at this mechanically as I said before your maneuver options as a Warblade are limited. You can't have 3 con. based counters,a con. based strike, and two iron heart manuevers to have a wall of blades for quite a while and apparently you have tiger claw maneuvers as well.
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I'm not sure what the problem is. I just looked at everything all over again and I've figured out that taking 2 dips into Swordsage is actually a great idea. Not only does it give me a plethora of maneuvers to start off with, but I'm basically allowing myself to get Absolute Steel Dance at Warblade level 5, which is just in time for me to get Iron Heart Aura.
It's true that I take Iron Heart maneuvers, but I've calculated that by CL20, I can replace those two maneuvers with those that I intend to use in the the Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw lines. Essentially, I'll have access to Times Stands Still, Mountain Tombstone Strike and Feral Death Blow.
Every level leading up to CL20 is still useful and all maneuvers hold utility. And, I only ever have to focus skill points into Concentration and Jump. And my INT is high enough that it allows me to put points into both every level while still managing to level up other skills.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying...
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Swordsage 2 is a good dip for Warblades, yeah. The best part is if you grab Adaptive Style, one use will let you reformat and re-ready your maneuvers from both classes at once.
I'm assuming you'll be doing the 2 Swordsage levels before Warblade 4 (when you get your second stance)? That means you'd nab 6 level 1 maneuvers and 1 level 1 stance and 1 level 2 maneuver and 1 level 2 stance (there are none, so another level 1).
Some things to look into:
Anything Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw works just as well coming from Swordsage, could even allow you to have the same maneuver prepped twice.
1st
Counter Charge: Very handy at times
Distracting Ember: At the very least, it's a swift for +2 to hit for a round.
Shadow Blade Tech: Get to roll twice to hit; the bonus cold damage option is a trap barring lucky rolls, though.
2nd
Cloak of Deception: Greater Invis till end of turn.
Shadow Jaunt: Costs a standard, but it's at will teleportation.
Stances:
Step of the Wind: When it's useful, it's VERY useful.
Child of Shadow: If you're not standing still full attacking, you get concealment. Constantly.
Flame's Blessing: This is fire immunity at ECL 16+. If you don't expect to reach ECL 16 or spend much time there, the crappy amounts of fire res you get before then aren't worth learning this for, IMO.
Hunter's Sense: Utility and combat uses; fairly redundant to get this if you're vying for Hearing the Air later on, though.
Island of Blades: if you have a melee sneak attacking ally, he'll love this, otherwise ignore.
I'm assuming you'll be doing the 2 Swordsage levels before Warblade 4 (when you get your second stance)? That means you'd nab 6 level 1 maneuvers and 1 level 1 stance and 1 level 2 maneuver and 1 level 2 stance (there are none, so another level 1).
Some things to look into:
Anything Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw works just as well coming from Swordsage, could even allow you to have the same maneuver prepped twice.
1st
Counter Charge: Very handy at times
Distracting Ember: At the very least, it's a swift for +2 to hit for a round.
Shadow Blade Tech: Get to roll twice to hit; the bonus cold damage option is a trap barring lucky rolls, though.
2nd
Cloak of Deception: Greater Invis till end of turn.
Shadow Jaunt: Costs a standard, but it's at will teleportation.
Stances:
Step of the Wind: When it's useful, it's VERY useful.
Child of Shadow: If you're not standing still full attacking, you get concealment. Constantly.
Flame's Blessing: This is fire immunity at ECL 16+. If you don't expect to reach ECL 16 or spend much time there, the crappy amounts of fire res you get before then aren't worth learning this for, IMO.
Hunter's Sense: Utility and combat uses; fairly redundant to get this if you're vying for Hearing the Air later on, though.
Island of Blades: if you have a melee sneak attacking ally, he'll love this, otherwise ignore.
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What I actually did, for the purposes of exploring the idea, was take a level into Warblade, then two consecutive levels of Swordsage, and then just Warblade after that.
The reason why I've done this is because my DM is introducing a campaign he's created called Treebane. In this game we no longer have a concept of hitpoints. Instead, it is called body points and prowess points. It's complicated to explain, I'll do it later if you're interested. Long story short, Warblade at first level to have body points of 14 as opposed to 10 by Swordsage. Also, at first level, I took Able Learner instead of Adaptive Style because it is very useful for the kind of character he is trying to be. I believe I can take it up in later levels, however, so I shall. Probably a good idea to take it at level 3, maybe..
I'm going to explore the different ways I can go about it, though. Maybe it would be a smarter idea to go and do WB4 and then SS2, and the WB after that...
The reason why I've done this is because my DM is introducing a campaign he's created called Treebane. In this game we no longer have a concept of hitpoints. Instead, it is called body points and prowess points. It's complicated to explain, I'll do it later if you're interested. Long story short, Warblade at first level to have body points of 14 as opposed to 10 by Swordsage. Also, at first level, I took Able Learner instead of Adaptive Style because it is very useful for the kind of character he is trying to be. I believe I can take it up in later levels, however, so I shall. Probably a good idea to take it at level 3, maybe..
I'm going to explore the different ways I can go about it, though. Maybe it would be a smarter idea to go and do WB4 and then SS2, and the WB after that...
Well you didn't say you were thinking of a swordsage dip, then you are in the clear however wall of blades has as a requirement of knowing two iron heart manuevers. It is also my experience skill checks are much more easily screwed up then attack rolls and saves, due to conditions, effects..etc, though maybe I had a finicky DM. As for a fighter dip if you think you are feat starved, you can take up to two flaws I would suggest, shaky(-2 ranged attacks) and pathetic (Charisma, it knocks down any selected attribute by 2).
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Nah, I don't think I want flaws. I might be able to make it work with just two dips in SS.
Also, Wall of Blades does not have that requirement. Or any, for that matter.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
I think emoplato keeps confusing wall of blades with the level 8 IH stance ("supreme blade parry"?) that gives DR 5. That's what I've been asuming thus far, at least.
Frankly, its unlikely your game will last long enough to see 8th level stances, but even if it does, there's better choices (I like Wolf Pack Tactics for a free 5 ft step with each hit).
Frankly, its unlikely your game will last long enough to see 8th level stances, but even if it does, there's better choices (I like Wolf Pack Tactics for a free 5 ft step with each hit).
Okay, so the way I did this was I started with 3 WB levels, then I ventured into 2 SS levels, and then once into WB. So, this is a CL6 character.
I've attached some PDFs of my character sheet for CL6. Some things look strange, but that is easily explained by the fact that I'm part of a weird campaign.
Anyway, bottom line is this; at level 6 I have the following maneuvers and feats:
FEATS:
Level 1: Able Learner
Level 3: Adaptive Style
Level 6: Power Attack
Maneuvers:
Level 7: Blind-Fight (Bonus)
Level 9: Leap Attack
Level 11: Iron-Heart Aura (Bonus)
Level 12: Improved Bull Rush
Level 15: Shock Trooper
Level 16: Improved Initiative (Bonus)
Level 18: Stormguard Warrior
What do you guys think?
I've attached some PDFs of my character sheet for CL6. Some things look strange, but that is easily explained by the fact that I'm part of a weird campaign.
Anyway, bottom line is this; at level 6 I have the following maneuvers and feats:
FEATS:
Level 1: Able Learner
Level 3: Adaptive Style
Level 6: Power Attack
Maneuvers:
Sword Sage
Warblade
Jesus, so much stuff.. In regards to feats, I think the feat progression should be:Desert Wind
- Burning Blade
- Distracting Ember
- Emerald Razor
- Wall of Blades
- Child of Shadow (Level 1 Stance)
- Shadow Blade Technique
- Cloak of Deception
- Bolstering Voice (Level 1 Stance)
- Dousing the Flames
Diamond Mind
- Moment of Perfect Mind
- Insightful Strike
- Absolute Steel (Level 2 Stance)
- Charging Minotaur
- Hunter's Sense (Level 1 Stance)
- Sudden Leap
- Rabid Wolf Strike
Level 7: Blind-Fight (Bonus)
Level 9: Leap Attack
Level 11: Iron-Heart Aura (Bonus)
Level 12: Improved Bull Rush
Level 15: Shock Trooper
Level 16: Improved Initiative (Bonus)
Level 18: Stormguard Warrior
What do you guys think?
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