Warforged ECL 0???? Yeah right!!!!

[Tiberius]

Maaan that juggernaught's going to be sorry later on. Once they go down, they stay down.

Unless they only take 4 levels of the class. IIRC, it's the 5th level that says "No res for you!"

 

[frankthedm]

Warforge immunities make them too useful for a lot of games. Unless the DM feels the warforged immunities are insignifigant, poision, energy drain and disease, the DM should NOT allow them.

If the DM handwaves food & water, rarely uses energy drainers, ignores diesases in the gamesetting and only has poision come up ocasionally, maybe warforged are balanced.

 

[BadMojo]

Is a LA +1 vs. LA +0 really that big of a deal? IMO, it's not game-breaking. I agree that it was a stretch to put the Warforged as an LA 0, but they're a) really cool and b) a big part of the setting. Nothing more frustrating than having this really cool new race that, out of the box, you can't use without the hassle of Level Adjustment.

I really don't see how it could throw off balance in your game or make it less fun for the other players.

 

[Hussar]

Warforge immunities make them too useful for a lot of games. Unless the DM feels the warforged immunities are insignifigant, poision, energy drain and disease, the DM should NOT allow them.

If the DM handwaves food & water, rarely uses energy drainers, ignores diesases in the gamesetting and only has poision come up ocasionally, maybe warforged are balanced.

Ok, how often does ANYONE track food and water beyond the first few levels? Come on, unless the party is in some sort of adventure where they never go back to civilization, it doesn't matter. Disease? Sure, it comes up sometimes, but, again, after 5th level, it's an annoyance, not a major issue. The cleric whack's you with cure disease and the problem goes away. Level Drain? Again, unless your campaign features a lot of undead, the cleric or the druid is going to use a second level spell to end that problem. Whoopee. So the PC's suffer a couple of penalties - how often have you ever seen a PC killed by level drain?

Now poison immunity is perhaps the biggest one. There's a lot of poisonous monsters out there. But, the fact that the warforged is relying on wands for healing means that at higher levels, he's never getting healed enough in combat. The biggest wand is still only 4d8 hp. That's chump change in the double digits when creatures are pumping out high double digits damage per round.

 

[shilsen]

If the DM handwaves food & water, rarely uses energy drainers, ignores diesases in the gamesetting and only has poision come up ocasionally, maybe warforged are balanced.

Not necessarily. I handwave food and water after a couple of levels, use energy drainers a lot, use disease a fair amount, and have poison come up very often. The warforged have been just fine in my campaign.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Ok, how often does ANYONE track food and water beyond the first few levels? Come on, unless the party is in some sort of adventure where they never go back to civilization, it doesn't matter.

This is something I agree with.

For Remove Disease, you'll probably be sick a whole day until the cleric preps the spell. Diseases are usually weak, however.

Level Drain? Again, unless your campaign features a lot of undead, the cleric or the druid is going to use a second level spell to end that problem. Whoopee. So the PC's suffer a couple of penalties - how often have you ever seen a PC killed by level drain?

Those penalties last a long time. I've seen PCs cower in fear because they got hit by an energy draining sword (a vampire was wielding it, which was nasty because the sword normally inflicts negative levels on the wielder)* whose effects lasted for hours. Running around with penalties to saves and lost spells for most of an adventuring day is simply vicious. Enervation is also nasty - I don't recall how long it lasts, but you're basically screwed for that encounter (penalties to saves and many die rolls) and it doesn't allow a save. I've never actually seen someone killed by energy draining; but then again I've never seen someone killed by Hold Monster either, yet that has resulted in the deaths of a fair number of PCs.

* It occurs to me, too late, that my warforged could have used that weapon. *Sigh*

Now poison immunity is perhaps the biggest one. There's a lot of poisonous monsters out there. But, the fact that the warforged is relying on wands for healing means that at higher levels, he's never getting healed enough in combat. The biggest wand is still only 4d8 hp. That's chump change in the double digits when creatures are pumping out high double digits damage per round.

I disagree, especially if the warforged is themself an artificer. (Warforged non-spellcasters who take Adamantine Armor are kind of overpowered too, unless they were rogues.) Warforged psions (not core/Eberron, admittedly) are cheesy when they take that feat. (The feat is quite balanced with fighters in mind, though.)

 

[Crothian]

I could probably find something stupidly broken in a book that gives you massive amounts of power as long as you accept level drains ... but I'm not that kind of player.

There are fewer "stupidly broken" options out there then you might think. The core books offer some options but they just can't cover everything so that is why I use more books. It has nothing to do with power.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Warforged, IMO, look a lot stronger on paper than in play.

Warforged, for me, are a strong +0 LA race, but not close to being overpowered.

I agree that they look stronger on paper than in play, but I ran a warforged paladin/cleric/exorcist of the Silver Flame from 1st to 20th level (Age of Worms Adventure Path), and IMO they are overpowered for a +0 LA race. Not by much, but they are.

What I would do to make them a balanced +0 LA race is remove the immunity to energy drain, the ability to benefit from consumable spells and magic items like heroes' feast and potions, the light fortification, and the ability to be healed of lethal hit point damage at all by spells from the healing subschool. (Flavor-wise, the only one of those I think they should have anyway is the light fortification.)

 

[Nightfall]

Gundark,

They won't be much 'invincible" once they reach the Spires of Long Shadow. Trust me, even Warforged can be turned into Spawn.

 

[Tetsubo]

I realize that I am in the minority with this opinion... but I've always seen the Warforged as being a weak +0 race. I've always thought they should have at least a +2 Strength. The immunities are nice but don't pop up all that often. I want WF to be more construct-like. And the healing penalty is a *major* negative...