Warlock Changing Patron

[Ancalagon]

I hate YOUNG PEOPLE. I just read the thread as "warlock changing proms"!

LOL

"Those young punks are so lazy! In my days you had to study years to master magic, or spend a decade praying! But now noooo, you just make a deal with a patron and shazam! you're slinging spells! It will end in tears I tell you!"

 

[Brainwatch]

Perhaps you can view the contract between the PC and their patron in some way similar to an athlete's contract to a sports team. This would allow the PC's "contract" to be traded to a new Patron. In this case perhaps because of the defeat of the BBEG, the Kraken is forced to pay off another powerful enity. Part of that pay-off could be the PC's "contract". Mechically this would allow for any changes in the class you both decided are appropret, while allowing the PC to remain a Warlock. You can do as much, or as little (or none) changes as you both feel are reflective of the new status. Story wise it could be intersting to have the PC visited by representatives of the new Patron to let them now who now holds the "contract". Both sides are still bound by the terms of the original "contract", but the relationship might be different now.

 

[Jay Verkuilen]

I've played two warlocks, well multiclassers with a lot of warlock, one MCed with rogue and the other with bard. One changed patrons due to story reasons, from the Archfey (actually in the campaign fluff an old PC of mine who was imprisoned) to the Raven Queen. Partly this was due to my own general wanderlust after playing the same character type for many levels, but it also made strong sense in the story. The other one decided that warlocking was a Really Bad Idea(TM) after some really momentous events in the campaign, went on a quest to Celestia to break the pact in the City of Tempered Souls, and became an Oath of the Ancients paladin!

I am generally pretty cool with rebuilds, especially of a character like a warlock who's abilities are often granted by someone else, at least in the canonical interpretation of the class. (I tend to think of it more as a way to build a character with some defined mystic powers.) However, I really do insist for myself as player or for a player if I'm DM on a solid in-character reason for a rebuild if it involves a fairly drastic change to the character, like a new pact or even a new class.

 

[77IM]

EN5ider has a warlock patron who appears to the dying and makes pacts with them: https://www.patreon.com/posts/legend-of-heart-17167270

The article features some nice random tables for how your old patron reacts to your switching pacts. Those tables are great stuff, and could really expand into an article of their own.

 

[Ancalagon]

EN5ider has a warlock patron who appears to the dying and makes pacts with them: https://www.patreon.com/posts/legend-of-heart-17167270

The article features some nice random tables for how your old patron reacts to your switching pacts. Those tables are great stuff, and could really expand into an article of their own.

Alas, I have a copper subscription but I am not an insider...

 

[Satyrn]

So

The party is in a big adventure where it will be revealed that the warlock's patron (a Kraken) has been pulling the strings and is controlling the BBEG (who's going along willingly btw). This has been foreshadoed, and the player (*and* his character) know they will have to make a choice soon - help his patron (and the BBEG) defeat the party, or stay loyal to the party and vanquish the BBEG.

After the climax of this adventure, assuming that the PC survives and chooses his allies over his evil patron... What happens?

Well I have a partial answer. I've decided in my game that the Patron is a source of secret knowledge, but not *power* - it's not a god. This means that the split between the patron and the PC means no more secret knowledge - but the PC still "keeps" what he has so far. He doesn't forget the secrets. However, going on up it will be difficult to operate as a warlock - he'll gain more HP as he levels up and his spell slots will go up in level, but he will learn no new spells or invocations. (I'm not asking for advice on this ruling btw, kindly read on!)

At this point the perhaps character could multi-class - perhaps the constant exposure to warlock magic has unlocked an unseen potential and he can now wield sorcerous magic? But another way forward would be gaining a new patron.

This is where I'm looking for advice, both rule wise and story wise, how this would work. Rule wise, especially if the new patron isn't the same "type" (ie not great old one anymore, which is what the Kraken was)... how would you handing changing sub-classes?

Story wise, ideas would be nice

I think I'd create a prestige class for a patron-less warlock. The prestige class would essentially look like the wizard (because I think the warlock's delving into secrets is more akin to a wizard than sorcerer), but interact with pact magic better than the wizard's spellcasting does.

What this actually looks like, I don't know . . . but I might write this up since I have introduced the means for a patron to break the pact (and the effect is the same as your ruling - can't learn new invocations and spells) so I ought to provide my players with some sort of backup option.

But slotting in a new patron doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think I'd create a prestige class for a patron-less warlock. The prestige class would essentially look like the wizard (because I think the warlock's delving into secrets is more akin to a wizard than sorcerer), but interact with pact magic better than the wizard's spellcasting does.

What this actually looks like, I don't know . . . but I might write this up since I have introduced the means for a patron to break the pact (and the effect is the same as your ruling - can't learn new invocations and spells) so I ought to provide my players with some sort of backup option.

But slotting in a new patron doesn't feel right to me.

I think if a new patron or not is appropriate is a very campaign specific question. For mine, it way be...
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=637097

 

[Ancalagon]

New question - should the *Boon* be changeable? Is this a learned secret or a granted power....

 

[Satyrn]

New question - should the *Boon* be changeable? Is this a learned secret or a granted power....

I'd lean towards unchangeable just so I don't have to deal with the invocations that use it as a requirement.

But, it really feels to me that a pact with a new patron ought to be able to come with a new boon.




If I was a warlock, my patron would be the great old one known only as the Fence Sitter.

 

[cooperjer]

Although brain storming a new patron would be fun, did you talk with the player about this? I have a similar event coming up with the warlock in my game. The character's patron is seeking more power in the same area the PC is working and expects the PC to help. If help is not granted then the pact is in question. My plan is to talk with the player before the game to find out what he plans to do when posed with the conflict that will come up in the game. In addition, I'll give the player the opportunity to describe how they want the story of their character to proceed. If I approach the conversation telling the player they have a choice of no patron or this one other patron, but the player wants to keep their character as a Fiend warlock, then the conversation will be less productive. If I approach the conversation listening for clues as to where the player wants to take their character, and I have options of keeping the character on the same pact path, or changing pact paths, or moving into a new class, or some other change, then I feel the player will be happier with their character. This all assumes the player wants to participate in story development of their PC. If the player isn't interested in that, then giving them so many options may not be necessary.