Warlock: Eldritch Blast

[Li Shenron]

It doesn't have a bonus to damage from any source, such as weapon attacks and some spells do.

Eldritch Blast deals 3d6 damage at first level, which averages out to about 10-11 damage.

A fighter with a Greataxe and 16 STR deals 1d12+3 damage, which averages out to about 9-10 damage. An elven fighter with a Longbow and 16 DEX deals 1d10+3 damage, which averages out to 8-9 damage. Both these attacks are made before without Deadly Strike, which adds about 3-4 damage on average.

The Wizard's Ray of Frost, also an at will power, may not be as powerful in terms of damage (6-7 on average), but it slows people down and he has access to spells that outdamage the warlock's eldritch blast that he can use a few times per day, such as Ray of Enfeeblement (14 damage on average, 7 on a miss AND minimizes damage of target).

I don't think 3d6 damage is too much at all, it just sounds good because of all the dice

Good analysis, but it actually delivers me the opposite feeling... that Eldritch Blast is way too much at will.

Another good comparison is to a rogue (thief) with a shortbow. Basically every other round (at least) the rogue gets to attack with advantage and deal 3d6+Dex modifier on a hit. 7d6+Dex modifier at 5th level.

Wait a minute... there are a lot of concerns with Sneak Attack being too powerful itself, and should be toned down. If that is going to happen, then the comparison will not be very appropriate anymore.

I think the comparison with the Fighter is the most appropriate, because the Fighter is supposed to be the fighter of the group, the guy who hits harder and more reliably than anybody else. Also because he's always going to be the character with less to do besides fighting, while the Warlock already has other capabilities.

 

[Neonchameleon]

3d6 damage? Average 10.5?

That's slightly higher than Radiant Lance or Ray of Frost (the latter having a secondary effect). It isn't fighter or sneak attack territory - and isn't much different from a cleric with a two handed weapon.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

The average damage is slightly higher than someone with the right weapon and ability modifier, but it's MUCH higher than similar spells for the Wizard and Cleric. With 3d6 you have a 25% chance of doing more damage than the MAXIMUM radiant lance can do. You'll outdamage ray of frost 62.5% of the time.

 

[slobo777]

3d6 damage? Average 10.5?

That's slightly higher than Radiant Lance or Ray of Frost (the latter having a secondary effect). It isn't fighter or sneak attack territory - and isn't much different from a cleric with a two handed weapon.

Ranged versus melee makes a difference. It's another part of the equation.

Ranged specialists who are useless in melee I'd expect to go better ranged damage, since monsters have been handed a mechanism to deal with them. Versatile characters (like the cleric) I'd expect to be less effective at ranged attacks, since they are risking less of their own resources to make the attack.

 

[Falling Icicle]

The average damage is slightly higher than someone with the right weapon and ability modifier, but it's MUCH higher than similar spells for the Wizard and Cleric. With 3d6 you have a 25% chance of doing more damage than the MAXIMUM radiant lance can do. You'll outdamage ray of frost 62.5% of the time.

Ray of Frost has a slow effect, so it makes sense that it doesn't do as much damage. Also, clerics and wizards also get daily spells, which are alot more powerful than the encounter powers a warlock gets.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Didn't one of the developers say a few months back that the Warlock was his favorite class?

The too-high damage of Eldritch blast smacks to me of some serious class favoritism.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Good analysis, but it actually delivers me the opposite feeling... that Eldritch Blast is way too much at will.

Wait a minute... there are a lot of concerns with Sneak Attack being too powerful itself, and should be toned down. If that is going to happen, then the comparison will not be very appropriate anymore.

I think the comparison with the Fighter is the most appropriate, because the Fighter is supposed to be the fighter of the group, the guy who hits harder and more reliably than anybody else. Also because he's always going to be the character with less to do besides fighting, while the Warlock already has other capabilities.

I've done the comparison math (Some of it is in these posts: Fighter vs Warlock and Rogue DPR) and as it currently stands, a Fighter is the superior damage dealer if he is focused on dealing damage in melee, and comparable to superior if focused on dealing damage at range.

So it may actually be that the Warlock's Eldritch Blast maybe underpowered.

 

[erf_beto]

It looks high to me, but as others have pointed out, it's not *that* high (and they were "strikers", partly anyway) - which is the point of the playtest. It will probably scale damage or change type, range etc, with a few feats, class features, or invocations (remember 3.5 had upgrades), but you'd have to give something else for it, so it *may* be balanced.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I've done the comparison math (Some of it is in these posts: Fighter vs Warlock and Rogue DPR) and as it currently stands, a Fighter is the superior damage dealer if he is focused on dealing damage in melee, and comparable to superior if focused on dealing damage at range.

So it may actually be that the Warlock's Eldritch Blast maybe underpowered.

No - the Fighter is supposed to deal the most damage. They are principally a combat class, with much less scope than others in exploration and social interaction.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've done the comparison math (Some of it is in these posts: Fighter vs Warlock and Rogue DPR) and as it currently stands, a Fighter is the superior damage dealer if he is focused on dealing damage in melee, and comparable to superior if focused on dealing damage at range.

So it may actually be that the Warlock's Eldritch Blast maybe underpowered.

I am actually more concerned with "touch and feel" than straight math.

No amount of math can after all convince me that EB is balanced if the way EB works is such that my Warlock players simply use it all the time ad nauseam.