D&D 5E Warlock One of the More Complicated 5E classes?

[Zardnaar]

People seem tothink the warlock is the simple caster but IMHO that belongs to the Sorcerer. The Warlock IMHO ios one class with a lot of moving parts due to the various invocation you can chose which in some ways seem to be a mixture of 3E/4E type feats or talents from Star Wars Saga edition. With 3 different types of warlocks and 3 pacts to pick from that more or less means there are 9 warlock subclasses you can then customize with spells and invocations.

For a newer player there is no big sign saying pick eldritch blast and hex as your class features and I have seen warlocks that would have lacked these from newer players and have seen people post on forums about spells like poison spray being chosen over eldritch blast.

Every other class or a lot more rigid with just feats and spells chosen to really make PCs different. I have also thought about using the Warlock as a template for complicated martial classes or the Warlord. One rpelaces invocations and spells with class features and "talent" to pick from.

Thoughts?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I think the answer to whether a class is simple or complicated requires clarification in the question - do you mean simple or complicated to play, or simple or complicated to build.

The warlock class can be very complicated in the build portion of the game because there are so many different types of choice-points; patron, pact boon, invocations of numerous types, plus the more common choices of which spells to know and what to do with ASIs/feats.

But once the warlock is put together and is actually in play, it is extremely simple - and certainly more simple that the Sorcerer who can trade sorcery points for spell levels, and vice versa, and also use them for a variety of situational special bonuses, which is a fairly high-complexity of play if you are engaging it rather than ignoring or intentionally self-simplifying

 

[Ath-kethin]

For a newer player there is no big sign saying pick eldritch blast and hex as your class features and I have seen warlocks that would have lacked these from newer players and have seen people post on forums about spells like poison spray being chosen over eldritch blast.

I imagine that such a sign doesn't exist because those choices are, well, choices and not requirements or class features. I realize that this is a tough one to wrap your mind around, but a warlock plays just fine without eldritch blast. Maybe not in your campaigns, but it certainly did in the ones in which I've been involved.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think the answer to whether a class is simple or complicated requires clarification in the question - do you mean simple or complicated to play, or simple or complicated to build.

The warlock class can be very complicated in the build portion of the game because there are so many different types of choice-points; patron, pact boon, invocations of numerous types, plus the more common choices of which spells to know and what to do with ASIs/feats.

But once the warlock is put together and is actually in play, it is extremely simple - and certainly more simple that the Sorcerer who can trade sorcery points for spell levels, and vice versa, and also use them for a variety of situational special bonuses, which is a fairly high-complexity of play if you are engaging it rather than ignoring or intentionally self-simplifying

I definitely think he includes chargen in his analysis - to build, and specifically to build well.

The fact you don't have so many options once you start play, and in fact have probably fewer options than any other full caster, should not obscure the fact that, yes, I would answer the OPs question with a resounding:

YES, it's one of the more complicated 5E classes!

The fact there isn't much choices to be made once play have started is simply not as relevant, unless if you get someone else to build your character for you.

 

[CapnZapp]

I imagine that such a sign doesn't exist because those choices are, well, choices and not requirements or class features. I realize that this is a tough one to wrap your mind around, but a warlock plays just fine without eldritch blast. Maybe not in your campaigns, but it certainly did in the ones in which I've been involved.

Let's just say that this does indeed add to the complexity percieved...

 

[Ancalagon]

I think the answer to whether a class is simple or complicated requires clarification in the question - do you mean simple or complicated to play, or simple or complicated to build.

The warlock class can be very complicated in the build portion of the game because there are so many different types of choice-points; patron, pact boon, invocations of numerous types, plus the more common choices of which spells to know and what to do with ASIs/feats.

But once the warlock is put together and is actually in play, it is extremely simple - and certainly more simple that the Sorcerer who can trade sorcery points for spell levels, and vice versa, and also use them for a variety of situational special bonuses, which is a fairly high-complexity of play if you are engaging it rather than ignoring or intentionally self-simplifying

I completely agree with your analysis - it's easy to play, hard to build (well build well). So if you have one guy saying "I want to play a mage, but I want it simple"... it's both a good and a terrible recommendation to make :/

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think the fact that there are two invocations that specifically boost eldritch blast is all the "sign" that you need for that decision. No other feature, including hex, has that.

I think it is possible that warlock can be complicated, but I don't think it is that way in practice very often (sorcerer is very much vice versa to this). Warlock is a class that supports character driven things more than mechanically driven ones, so most people pick things that support their story and pay the eldritch blast tax so they can do their part when the party gets in a fight with 100 goblins.

In my experience, people who build a sorcerer like that (being the dragon dude, or the storm girl, or the shadow guy, or the emerging angel) also tend to find it easy, but when they get stuck on "these are the spells a sorcerer has got to have", they find it unduly complicated, because for a lot of people the "got to have" list is ridiculously large (seriously if your list is that big, play a wizard and save yourself and everyone else the stress).

 

[Ashrym]

I think the answer to whether a class is simple or complicated requires clarification in the question - do you mean simple or complicated to play, or simple or complicated to build.

The warlock class can be very complicated in the build portion of the game because there are so many different types of choice-points; patron, pact boon, invocations of numerous types, plus the more common choices of which spells to know and what to do with ASIs/feats.

But once the warlock is put together and is actually in play, it is extremely simple - and certainly more simple that the Sorcerer who can trade sorcery points for spell levels, and vice versa, and also use them for a variety of situational special bonuses, which is a fairly high-complexity of play if you are engaging it rather than ignoring or intentionally self-simplifying

My thoughts exactly. The class can be complicated to build (I am looking at blade pacts as a big offender there) but making and using a warlock who spams eldritch blast is about as simple as it gets.

 

[Mercule]

I think the answer to whether a class is simple or complicated requires clarification in the question - do you mean simple or complicated to play, or simple or complicated to build.

The warlock class can be very complicated in the build portion of the game because there are so many different types of choice-points; patron, pact boon, invocations of numerous types, plus the more common choices of which spells to know and what to do with ASIs/feats.

But once the warlock is put together and is actually in play, it is extremely simple - and certainly more simple that the Sorcerer who can trade sorcery points for spell levels, and vice versa, and also use them for a variety of situational special bonuses, which is a fairly high-complexity of play if you are engaging it rather than ignoring or intentionally self-simplifying

This. We added my totally green 12-year-old to our game. She wanted to play a caster. I initially set her up with a dragon-blooded Sorcerer, but that proved to be a bit advanced. I ended up converting the bloodline to a Warlock pact (because making pacts with an elder wyrm seems completely appropriate for Eberron) and it's much, much easier. Granted, she makes pretty much no "build" decisions, but it's a lot cleaner at the table.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

The fact there isn't much choices to be made once play have started is simply not as relevant, unless if you get someone else to build your character for you.

While I don't consider the complexity of building the character to be much of a big deal because a player usually has at least a few days to consider their building options and select one they can be satisfied with - but only a few moments to consider their play options before they are affecting everyone else at the table.