D&D General Warlocks: Charisma vs Intelligence

[Kurotowa]

A bespectacled researcher delves into tomes of arcane knowledge and forbidden lore. They're working to uncover the hidden secrets of the cosmos, secrets that will let them wield magical power of great potency. Some would say their skills are unnatural, and that their magics call up things best left slumbering. But they care not, and continue their research.

Quick, is that a Warlock or a Wizard? Because right now it's clearly a Wizard, and that clarity is something the Devs value. A spellcaster who attained their power through study and research is a Wizard, while a Warlock is one who did it by negotiating a Pact. A Warlock gains strength from who they know, not what they know.

Could I see an alternative version of D&D where Wizards and Warlocks were fused into one class? Absolutely. It'd be something closer to the real world historical conception of necromancers as a learned man who could command the spirits of the dead to perform magical services for them. But we're talking about a D&D where all the classes are shuffled around.

Having Warlocks as a Cha caster keeps their identity clearly differentiated from Wizards. I respect and appreciate that.

 

[jayoungr]

The balance of caster stats is off. An Intelligence Warlock would allow the stats to be balanced:

Personally (and I fully expect to be flamed severely chastized for this), I think it's a mistake to put this sort of consideration ahead of what makes most sense for the fiction.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Flex it; there's a case to be made for any of the three "standard dump stats" (Str, Int, Cha) and it won't unbalance things the way Wis might (also wise people don't make deals with devils).

Also flex sorcerers to Cha/Str

 

[abirdcall]

I thought it was quite strange for them to be charisma.

Charisma will not protect you from the fey if you made a bad deal.

Intelligence is necessary to research the rules of how to interact and what to look out for. You need to know what they want as well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Personally (and I fully expect to be flamed severely chastized for this), I think it's a mistake to put this sort of consideration ahead of what makes most sense for the fiction.

Completely agree for my table. There's other schools of thought though, and that's cool.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Charisma.

Int would make sense for an occultist, but that's just a wizard. They've got the books and the rituals and whatnot.

Warlocks make pacts with things. Deals. Their Charisma gets them a better deal, helps them charm the fey themselves, helps them wheel and deal with a fiend.

 

[Scribe]

It's interesting to see this from a perspective of the Warlock actually brokering the deal, with entities wildly more powerful, intelligent, or otherwordly, in the case of Old Ones, potentially not even in the same realm of reference, and somehow 'coming out on top'.

Just doesnt make sense to me.

To me, Warlocks channel power that is not theirs, their bodies ability to channel that power, Con, is what makes them tick, and should come at a cost. They didnt earn the power. They didnt study, they dont even have to support the power (Goo) but they act as a conduit for their patron.

Its not their power at all.

 

[abirdcall]

Charisma.

Int would make sense for an occultist, but that's just a wizard. They've got the books and the rituals and whatnot.

Warlocks make pacts with things. Deals. Their Charisma gets them a better deal, helps them charm the fey themselves, helps them wheel and deal with a fiend.

I don't think a cha 16 level 0 character is charming an arch fey.

Their thing is charming and tricking mortals.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Personally (and I fully expect to be flamed severely chastized for this), I think it's a mistake to put this sort of consideration ahead of what makes most sense for the fiction.

a valid point, but i don't think the mechanical eveness is a perspective you should dismiss entirely just because it's mechanical, if the points made from a desire to balance can also be reinforced by points from the fiction angle too then why not make them?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I don't think a cha 16 level 0 character is charming an arch fey.

Their thing is charming and tricking mortals.

No, I'd say they're charming an arch fey. CHA 16 is a heroic level of charm, a level of attention-getting that most people aren't capable of. Enough for an arch fey to notice them, to have them stand out of the crowd. Enough so that when the warlock reaches out to form a pact, the creature is curious, engaged, and willing.

Warlock magic comes from their relationships with others.