D&D General Warlocks: Charisma vs Intelligence

[W'rkncacnter]

Constitution.

i thought this was a warlock thread, not a sorcerer thread!

 

[Stalker0]

to me charisma and wisdom both make sense.

Charisma for the bargaining with your patron for power. Wisdom is the cleric's stat for channeling divine power, and so that seems a similar concept.

Int makes the least sense to me

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

to me charisma and wisdom both make sense.

Charisma for the bargaining with your patron for power. Wisdom is the cleric's stat for channeling divine power, and so that seems a similar concept.

Int makes the least sense to me

See, it's Int for me.

The entire narrative of how one finds how to access such eldritch powers is research and study. Intelligence is the Ability score for that. Charisma, I can see after the fact, where having a strong force of personality would be helpful to resist a Patron's influence... but there is no narrative or mechanical weight behind that justification. That's just not how the class works. There is no struggle that warrants needing a high Charisma. But you are always trying to research and unlock new powers. Sounds like you have to be smart to figure out those mysteries, not influential.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i do think mechanically we could use another INT caster over CHA, and i think thematically the idea that warlocks can work their power through any of smarts, guile or charm as a versatile caster is also very apropriate and cool, i mean, there's probably tons of entities of all kinds out there that a warlock can find the right one that fits their style, be that a brainy archfey, a scheming demon or a silver tongued old one.

 

[Micah Sweet]

See, it's Int for me.

The entire narrative of how one finds how to access such eldritch powers is research and study. Intelligence is the Ability score for that. Charisma, I can see after the fact, where having a strong force of personality would be helpful to resist a Patron's influence... but there is no narrative or mechanical weight behind that justification. That's just not how the class works. There is no struggle that warrants needing a high Charisma. But you are always trying to research and unlock new powers. Sounds like you have to be smart to figure out those mysteries, not influential.

Of the choices given, Int makes a lot of sense to me.

Or Con. Because that just sounds neat.

 

[Xeviat]

I'm fine with Charisma but would prefer a choice and my reasoning has nothing to do with balancing the caster stats between classes.

One of my ideas for the warlock is an occultist, someone who doesn't make a pact with some other entity but instead delves into forbidden lore and knowledge, which fits well with intelligence. I go back and forth around if I want the occultist to have a spellbook and be a proper caster class rather than using pact magic.

Another class I'd like to make Int based as an option is the bard, I've wanted to make an investigator using loremaster with high intelligence. This is mostly to make it easy on DnDbeyond, took a bit of time to change every known spell to int and you have to update it when your int of prof bonus goes up.

I feel the same about Warlocks being occultists. Changing the feeling of "I charmed/tricked/stole this power" to "i know the secrets" feels right to me. It also offers more differentiation between, say, a Celestial Warlock and a Divine Soul Sorcerer, or a GOOlock and an Aberrant Sorcerer.

 

[Seramus]

Int to uncover dark secrets, decrypt an ancient book, make sure your hell contract has all the necessary clauses without condemning you utterly, or understand things no mortal was ever meant to learn.

Cha to persuade the eldritch force to grant you anything at all, to hold onto your sense of self against an ocean of overwhelming alien thought, to entertain a capricious fey with a promise of antics.

 

[Xeviat]

I got excited at the idea of variable ability scores for a Warlock. Most martial characters can choose between Str/Dex, and I thought Int/Cha could be an interesting, dynamic choice for a Warlock. But if the choices within the class are to be meaningful, it seems like only certain powers/class ability options would be available/effective with certain Ability Score focuses. I'm not sure if I like segregating ability-focused powers/choices like they did in 4E.

I think Int-based Artificers could be interesting if they were built on the Warlock chassis. Invocations can be Infusions instead.

I would also be interested in a Divine 4E-Invoker themed class built on the Warlock chassis that has their own exclusive Invocations, and can also use some appropriately-themed Warlock Invocations, but in a product that also adds some new other Invocations available to both the Warlock and Invoker.

My thought for a divine warlock has always been "Mystery Cult". You belong to a divine church, but you're the secret side of it, knower of esoteric and mystic religious rites that the common priests don't know. From my understanding of Greek God cults, this feels cool to me (and more flavorful than making a pact with an angel or a unicorn, not that the current Celestial Warlock has bad flavor, I just like ties to Clerics).

 

[CleverNickName]

I like Wisdom for my warlocks, but it could be interesting for certain pacts to use certain ability scores...

 

[Xeviat]

I completely understand the theme of a Con-based caster. But that is so Single-Ability-Dependent with the most powerful Ability. That one ability would cover their Spell Power, HP, Con Saves, and Concentration? It's a no-brainer. Theoretically someone might choose Int or Wis or Cha over Con, but that would not be the norm.

I did consider the solution to my perceived "problem" being Sorcerer to Con and keeping Warlock on it's pseudofullcaster chasis (since I'm ultimately gonna use Spell Points for all when I start up a game with players eager to playtest D&X's... X20... idk). I don't find Con caster to be a problem, especially if you have it use HP as a resource like Pathfinder 1's Kineticist.