Warmage from the Miniatures Handbook Questions

[Darkness]

Now that means any additions to the spell list for a warmage ...

...is quite possibly not really necessary; they can already learn some additional Sor/Wiz Evocation spells over the levels.

Yes, they are basically sorcerers specializing in offensive spells

'Specializing' is an understatement; they're incredibly obsessed.

But not having access to any defense spells, dispel magic, movement spells, divinations, summoning spells, etc. is a real disadvantage. All they can do is stand there and blast stuff. 'course, they're really really really good at this.

 

[Beholder Bob]

...is quite possibly not really necessary; they can already learn some additional Sor/Wiz Evocation spells over the levels.

True - I meant additional spells added to the spell list (as in magic of ferun, or mini-handbook II, what-have you. When a spell is added to the priest spell list, all priests have gained additional castable spells, but must memorize them first. When new MU spells are added, the sorcerer gains nothing unless he chooses to learn one of these spells. When (not if, but when) a spell is added to their list, they all suddenly gain the knowledge (and become tougher). True, he can learn some evoker spells, but at least those are very limited in number.

I do not think I'll allow them in my game, not even as NPC's (if a 10th level sorcerer is a CR 10, what is a CR 10 Warmage?). Perhaps reactionary, I'll have to temper my reaction by what effects I see it have on others games, but these fellows reek of danger to balance. Sure, the spell list is very limited, making them similar to sorcerers who made themselves battle platforms - but the additional abilities, wider list of spells (and inherent 'energy substitution' w/out delay), HP, and BATT (oh, and light armor) very bad indeed. I would find them very limiting to play - but having the raw power would be fun for a brief moment.

The last problem I have with these fellows is the carbon copy nature of them. "Hi, I'm a warmage, I can cast these spells. Always have them ready." "Really, I'm one too, same spell list as well." "We sure will be different once we each learn 1 evocation spell! Then our differences will really show." "Yep." "Yep."

 

[Darkness]

When a spell is added to the priest spell list, all priests have gained additional castable spells, but must memorize them first.

Really? I haven't looked up the 3.5 rules on this lately but in any case I'm not sure this is the optimal way to go about this... YMMV.

The last problem I have with these fellows is the carbon copy nature of them.

Yah. I recommend multi-classing, preferably into prestige classes, if variety is desired.

 

[Felon]

But not having access to any defense spells, dispel magic, movement spells, divinations, summoning spells, etc. is a real disadvantage. All they can do is stand there and blast stuff. 'course, they're really really really good at this.

Yep, players just don't appreciate the value of a Knock spell until they really, really need it.

I will say, though, arcanists don't really have great defensive spells on the whole, and the warmage is probably better off just using armor and shield.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I do not think I'll allow them in my game, not even as NPC's (if a 10th level sorcerer is a CR 10, what is a CR 10 Warmage?).

Umm. Level 10? Really, it's not difficult.

Most of the examples given where a wizard trashes a fighter are primarily non-evocation spells. Having a character who can only cast those spells isn't that great.

 

[Felon]

Well, there's truth to that but I will say that I've seen plenty of campaigns where the direct-damage spells are the only spells that are effective. A lot of DM's think it's anti-climactic for a monster to be defeated by being, say, charmed or held. Everything has to go out with a bang and not a whimper, so the critters have an uncanny knack for always making those Will saves.

 

[Darkness]

I will say, though, arcanists don't really have great defensive spells on the whole, and the warmage is probably better off just using armor and shield.

True. If (like the Warmage) you can use it without losing a lot of your class abilities in the process, armor and shield generally >> mage armor.

'course, they don't even get protection from elements, (minor) globe of invulnerability, etc.

... plenty of campaigns where the direct-damage spells are the only spells that are effective. A lot of DM's think it's anti-climactic for a monster to be defeated by being, say, charmed or held. Everything has to go out with a bang and not a whimper, so the critters have an uncanny knack for always making those Will saves.

Hm. For this, a sorcerer with a few good blast spells is just about as effective - and he's more flexible (Will save spells, defense, movement, etc.).
While the Warmage is tougher (HD, armor).

 

[Nightchilde-2]

True - I meant additional spells added to the spell list (as in magic of ferun, or mini-handbook II, what-have you. When a spell is added to the priest spell list, all priests have gained additional castable spells, but must memorize them first. When new MU spells are added, the sorcerer gains nothing unless he chooses to learn one of these spells. When (not if, but when) a spell is added to their list, they all suddenly gain the knowledge (and become tougher). True, he can learn some evoker spells, but at least those are very limited in number.

This is how I would/will run it.

The warmage spell list is *it.* Anything else from other sourcebooks (unless they are specifically listed as warmage spells) must be learned with Advanced Learning (or whatever the name of the class ability that lets you learn new evocation spells is).

Ergo, for example, none of the spells from Magic of Faerun are on a warmage's list, but they can be learned with advanced learning....

 

[Beholder Bob]

Umm. Level 10? Really, it's not difficult.

Most of the examples given where a wizard trashes a fighter are primarily non-evocation spells. Having a character who can only cast those spells isn't that great.

Doh!!! I mean LV 10 sorcerer vs LV 10 Warmage. The Warmage is a tougher class then the sorcerer (they may lack variety, but oh well). Now an earlier comment was that this was to make up for the fragile nature of the sorcerer. I didn't share that view - but the avg of +1 hp/LV, armor, and the abilities and spell variety do make him a tougher nut to crack. So - is the warmage just equal to the sorcerer, or more like a prestige version of the same? I'd lean to him being listed as a CR 11 if the abilities gained are tough enough (I do not remember the meta's gained). I guess a fair reference to my line of thought - If a character had 10 levels in a prestige class (no levels in a base class - I know, illegal) - is he tougher then a LV 10 base class character (and therefore a higher CR)?
As to the calculation of CR for an encounter - the subtle powers gained by an arcane caster with flexibility of spells is nice, but for an encounter in a dungeon - casting blast spells of every variety works just fine. I do not think they suffer much at all for the loss of spell variety as an encounter in a dungeon.