Water, water everywhere, Nor any drop to drink

[mellored]

But how does doing so force another PC to look up to said paladin?

How does any warlord ability force another PC to look upto the warlord?

Are you sure they can do that? You may be mistaken.

Yes.

1 bonus action, 60', verbal
"A creature of your choice that you can see within range regains hit points..."

How do any of those relate to taking agency from the other players?

It doesn't take anything away.

A barbarian getting benefits from rage does not prevent other PC's from being angry. They just don't get the mechanical benefit for doing so.
And a warbard being able to give benifits from inspiring does not prevent other PC's from inspiring. They just don't get the mechanical benefit.

That's not true. I've been roleplaying leader-types who inspire fellow adventurers, even entire armies, since 1st edition. I'm sorry you've been unable.

Ok...
I could play an angry fighter who prays, punches things, sneaks around, and reads spell books in 1e too.
So i'm not sure what your point is.

Truth is, he's from no such set of rules ever. He's a literary character unbeholden to TTRPG mechanics.

That was my point.

He's not from D&D, or any game.

 

[Bawylie]

But how does doing so force another PC to look up to said paladin?


But how does doing so force another PC to look up to said paladin?


But how does doing so force another PC to look up to said paladin?


But how does doing so force another PC to look up to said paladin?


Are you sure they can do that? You may be mistaken.


How do any of those relate to taking agency from the other players? You are deep down a rabbit hole here. What do any of those things have to do with the topic at hand. I confess, you have routinely been one of the most off-topic posters around here. Please stop derailing.


That's not true. I've been roleplaying leader-types who inspire fellow adventurers, even entire armies, since 1st edition. I'm sorry you've been unable.


Balderdash. He's the iconic ranger. This claim of yours right here shows how ridiculous your arguments are getting. You actually typed that with serious intentions? Or was this a poor attempt at a joke?


And? So you can show that all ranger characters do these things? I've played plenty of rangers. Many of which could not do these things either.


Wow. Make stuff up much? Truth is, he's from no such set of rules ever. He's a literary character unbeholden to TTRPG mechanics. Yet he's been propped up multiple times in this and other threads as proof of mechanics. Now that he's inconvenient, you try to distance yourself. Fascinating.

None of the Warlord's abilities require that another PC respect him. That's all hogwash. Just like no cleric buffs require faith in the cleric's deity.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

How does any warlord ability force another PC to look upto the warlord?

...by stating so in every warlord inspirational class feature you, or anyone else, has presented. That's how. Care to take another crack at presenting an inspirational leader class that avoids this pitfall?

Yes.

1 bonus action, 60', verbal
"A creature of your choice that you can see within range regains hit points..."

I don't see that class feature anywhere. You are making things up now.

And even if there were such a class feature, still nothing "leadership" or "inspiring" about it. Nothing in what you suggest indicates the recipient must respect or admire the paladin.

It doesn't take anything away.

Your opinion does not the facts make.

A barbarian getting benefits from rage does not prevent other PC's from being angry. They just don't get the mechanical benefit for doing so.

Irrelevant to an inspirational warlord using class features to inform another PC how to think and feel.

And a warbard being able to give benifits from inspiring does not prevent other PC's from inspiring. They just don't get the mechanical benefit.

You seem to hang an awful lot on mechanics. Do you not allow yourself to roleplay without crunch informing you of how? FYI, 5e may not be the system/edition for you if that's the case.

Ok...
I could play an angry fighter who prays,

There's a background for that (acolyte). You don't need a class for that.

punches things,

Anyone can do that. There's even a feat that lets you do it better.

sneaks around,

Anyone can do that. Not sure your point.

and reads spell books in 1e too.

There's a fighter subclass that does that already. And several feats as well.

He's not from D&D, or any game.

So let's stop propping him up as an example of an inspirational leader, huh?

 

[ChrisCarlson]

None of the Warlord's abilities require that another PC respect him.

Then why have all the warlord class features, tied to inspiration or leadership, say otherwise?

Points for hogwash though.

 

[Bawylie]

Then why have all the warlord class features, tied to inspiration or leadership, say otherwise?

Points for hogwash though.

Where do they say "the target must respect you, even if they don't want to, and the target gains additional benefits if they kiss your rear, call you 'captain' or 'my lord' or spend downtime licking your boots"?

 

[mellored]

...by stating so in every warlord inspirational class feature you, or anyone else, has presented. That's how.

Show me where anyone (besides you) has said that you need to look upto a warlord to get a buff?

Something like...
"The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be." can have a profound impact on someone's life, without respecting the person who said it, or even knowing who they where. (Ralph Waldo Emerson).

I don't see that class feature anywhere. You are making things up now.

It's in the back of the book. Along with plenty of other class features. Like fear or friends.

There's a background for that (acolyte). You don't need a class for that.

So you think clerics should also not exists because anyone can pray?

There's a fighter subclass that does that already. And several feats as well.

So you think wizards should not exists because anyone can read a spell book?

Anyone can do that. There's even a feat that lets you do it better.

Exactly my point.

Anyone can do virtually anything. But you need a mechanic (feat/class/race) to let you do something better.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Where do they say "the target must respect you, even if they don't want to, and the target gains additional benefits if they kiss your rear, call you 'captain' or 'my lord' or spend downtime licking your boots"?

Hyperbole, my friend. I never stated any rear-kissing was required. Not verbal accolades. Only that warlord inspirational class features generally state that the effect is a result of the recipients respecting, admiring and/or looking up to the warlord as a leader and/or their inspiration.

Can you present any that do not? I'm not saying there aren't any. Just that I don't recall any that fail to state such a condition in their write-up.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

It's in the back of the book. Along with plenty of other class features. Like fear or friends.

Spells aren't class features. Only access to them is. And they are not, by definition, non-magical inspiration. You failed on two counts to meet the criteria you yourself set out.

Anyone can do virtually anything. But you need a mechanic (feat/class/race) to let you do something better.

This is not the 5e way. Although there is a previous edition or two that may better suit your particular playstyle*. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

(*And the good news is that both the editions I'm thinking of have a class very much like what you are looking for. Enjoy!)

 

[mellored]

Spells aren't class features. Only access to them is. And they are not, by definition, non-magical inspiration. You failed on two counts to meet the criteria you yourself set out.

Paladins can yell at someone to heal because of the spell casting class feature and the mechanic.

And "magic" is your excuse, not mine.

This is not the 5e way.

A class feature let's you do something better then someone without the class feature. That's exactly what a class feature is.

Particularly in 5e. Which, unlike some editions, anyone can attempt to disarm a trap, pick a lock, track, sneak or find food in the wilderness.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Paladins can yell at someone to heal because of the spell casting class feature and the mechanic.

Are you sure? Don't you mean, "if the paladin chooses to take that spell they can perform that effect"? Otherwise it sounds like you are implying that all paladins can use a bonus action to "shout"* hit points onto someone.

(*not how the spell works, but your words none-the-less. And still not non-magical inspirational healing which is your criteria you keep avoiding sticking to.)

And "magic" is your excuse, not mine.

You say, "excuse", but most people say, "reason".

A class feature let's you do something better then someone without the class feature. That's exactly what a class feature is.

So all spell casters are inspirational leaders now?

Particularly in 5e. Which, unlike some editions, anyone can attempt to disarm a trap, pick a lock, track, sneak or find food in the wilderness.

Exactly. Just like anyone should be able to be an inspirational leader. See? Now you are getting it. Good work.