[Way OT & possibly NC-17 rated] Can men and women "just be friends"?

[RigaMortus]

Right, here we hit the age-old problem of you putting words into my mouth.

How did I put words in your mouth? Everything you quoted there was either me asking a question, or wanted a clarification. There were no statements, just questions. Are you suggesting I put questions in your mouth? That makes no sense...

I HAVE refused a come-on before. She was very drunk, I had a girlfriend at the time. Now, if I'd been single, that would have been much more difficult, because I don't think I would feel happy at taking advantage of a drunk person. But that's a different story.

This isn't about turning a girl down that you met for 5 minutes at a party. It's about friends, specifically a friendship you've had with a girl for a long time. And if it was truly a friendship, or was there flirting involved? Would you refuse your FRIEND (not the drunk girl at a party) if she came on to you?

Re: refusing and resisting. That may not be the same thing, and you may just be arguing a point, but "refuse means you don't want to at all" - well, what? Are you assuming that I automatically want to go further? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

To clarify... Let's assume you have no intentions of going further with a female friend. You are single, she is single, but you've been friends for awhile now and that is all it is. Being a MAN, we will assume you've at least fantasized about her, but all it was was a fantasy. Now if she came on to you, for whatever reason, could you refuse her?

Refusing someone means, there is no temptation there. Why is there no temptation? Probably because either a) you are married b) gay c) she is ugly d) she is related to you. Those are the only reasons I can see why you would be friends with a girl and not be tempted by her invitation (although married people can be tempted, I am giving people benefit of the doubt here).

Now if you are resisting her, it is for other reasons. There is a temptation there. You want to go further with her, but don't let yourself because it would be "wrong" in some way, shape or form. If you fall into this category, you can't truly be "friends" with a girl because you will at some point be tempted (whether you go for it or not is a different point).

Not sure if that was any clearer...

 

[barsoomcore]

This is one of those crazy debates I don't get AT ALL.

Sex, Friendship -- do these two concepts have ANYTHING to do with each other? If you lose your friendship because you slept together then you probably weren't very good friends to begin with. And if you don't, what are we talking about?

My friends and I used to have a saying: "If you can't shag your friends, who can you shag?" We didn't use the word shag but the meaning is clear, I think.

Sex, Friendship, Friendship, Sex -- whatever.

People seem to want to put up little boxes around the people in their life: "These are my friends. These are people I sleep with. These are people I want to sleep with but never will because I don't like myself enough to consider myself worthy of them." It's a useless pasttime because people won't stay in little boxes. They keep wanting to move around and it gets tedious trying to stick them where you want them.

If you know what I mean. And I think you do.

Of course gender is a factor in any relationship. So is height. So is native language. So is butt size. So is sense of humour. So what? Every friend I have, I have a unique relationship with. My friendship with Paul is completely different than my friendship with Glenn. The reasons for those differences are myriad and will always defy precise definition. Likewise the differences between my friendship with Alex and my friendship with Stephanie. One difference is that I've never had an urge to kiss Alex, but it's hardly the only difference. I don't even know that it's the most important difference.

People get myopic about sex. As though we could reduce every human behaviour to sex. Now when I was twenty it did seem that way, but that doesn't make it true.

I have not found a correlation between the reward I get from a friendship and the degree of sexual interest that friendship involves. Some friendships that involved HUGE amounts have turned out to be deeply important parts of my life, but so have some that involved none. And vice versa.

*shrugs*

 

[aliensex]

I don't think its an issue of control. I mean, men are not a bunch of rapists. I'm not looking for the slightest opening to jump onto something female (no, honestly! ). Its about the relationship. I happen to agree with RigaMortus.

I, being a sexually normal male, can indeed have a freindship with a female. But would it be, absolutely, positively, 100% the same as a relationship with a man? I don't think so. Deep down there are base biological urges. Its how we are wired. It may be incredibly subtle and very hard to notice, but I think that there would be an attraction of some sort.

Can a man and a woman just be freinds? Hell yes! Is it completely the same as a same sex freindship? I really don't think so.

Emotions and drives interacting can be complex, and I don't think we will ever be able to know 100% how even our own minds are working.

 

[The Sigil]

I must shamefully admit that I no longer know any hamburgers.

Oh, wait -- was that a metaphor?

Daniel

ROTFLMAO!!!

Originally posted by KDLadage

I mean, it is not as if I did not know what she looked like. It just never occured to me to think of her in those terms. She was my friend. Nothing else really mattered (or matters).

I applaud you. I had a similar situation - fortunately, it was not my parents who were so bigoted, but one of my "friends." Ick. My parents were rather open-minded when I played with the next-door neighbors - who were black - when nobody else in our Southern neighborhood would. Silly.

Originally posted by Merlion

I probably SHOULDNT be weighing in on this but I'm going to anyway
I am gay...but I have been friends and only friends with males that I found atractive. and I know plenty of straight people who have friends of the oposite sex, who are atractive, and they remain purely friends. Now yea being friends only with someone you find physicaly atractive AND are INTERESTED IN would be very diffacult.
Also as for the controlling hormones thing...well I think this is where I have maybe some insight because of my being gay. I was in the closet for a long time..and even after I essentialy came out I was still living with my folks and forbidden from acting on my feelings in any way. And I associated with guys that I found atractive..with no real problems. Now no I wasnt often around guys I knew to be gay...but I didnt even try and find out. Some times you do lose control...but people CAN and DO control this and other urges. Which feeds back into what I said...trying to be "just friends" with someone that you want to be intimate...is going to be painful. being friends with someone whom is of the gender your atracted to that your not INTERESTED in(often even if the are atractive or visualy pleasing) is quite possible.

Actually, Merlion, I think you have every reason to weigh in.

Male->Female attraction isn't/shouldn't be the issue... ATTRACTION should be the issue. Your response is therefore relevant. To restrict it to "male-female" attraction is a little close-minded, IMO.

--The Sigil

 

[Merlion]

Yes.

I have many female friends. I have no sexual attration to them (it is not that they are unattractive, they are all very attravtive really) -- it is just that I love my wife very much and so (for me) the idea of seeing another woman in a sexual way usually -- not always, but usually -- does not occur to me.

But then, I have a history of having a blind eye for some details. For example, a very good friend of mine back in Highschool (9th grade) was very close to me and we always spent a lot of time with each other. She and I both loved Star Trek and loved to write fan fiction. One day my mother saw us together and told me I was to never see her again.

I asked her why.

My mother's response floored me and has been a source of tension for us ever since (I will be 35 years old this year). In fact, my mother and I have had very few civil words with each other in over 15 years... My mother said: "Because I want white grandbabies." It was not until that moment that it ever occured to me that my friend was black.

I mean, it is not as if I did not know what she looked like. It just never occured to me to think of her in those terms. She was my friend. Nothing else really mattered (or matters).

Now as far as my (female) friends. Some of them are, quite honestly, more (physically) attractive than my wife. My wife is niether the most (physically) "beautiful" or (physically) sexually "attractive" woman I have ever met (or even dated, for that matter).

But she is the most beautiful and sexually attractive person I have ever known. And for those that cannot understand how these two things differ -- physical and overall -- I am afraid this will make no sense, because I cannot explain it any better than that...

I just have to comment on this. first let me say...well what a terrible thing that was. I sympathize cause this is very similiar to me and my mom and her feelings about my gayness...since I moved out of her house and my partner and I have been living together our relationship has detriorated massively.
But thats how I am to..I dont notice things like that. Different people evoke different reactions....so I have met guys that were extremely atractive but that I never had anymore interest in than as friends or aquaintences.

 

[WayneLigon]

I have about as much control over my hormones as I have control over my white blood cells. I don't think anyone has the ability to "control their hormones".

I would have to say that's totally wrong. A person has complete control over what their hormones tell them to do, unless they have some mental deficiency or form of addictive personality.

 

[Rel]

I think this is an interesting (if a tad cliche) question and one that I've thought about quite a bit. The answer that I've come up with boils down to "yes and no".

Why am I friends with the guys I'm friends with (I'm a guy btw)? Because our friendships "work". We enjoy each other's company. We have certain common interests. We find each other fun and entertaining to be around. We care about each other's well being. And we don't have any "deal-breaker" problems with each other that would make our friendships inviable.

Why am I friends with the women I'm friends with? Because of all the same reasons as with the guys I am friends with AND because a sexual relationship won't "work" with them. The chief reason for this is that I am married. In addition, a couple (at most) of the women with whom I'm friends are not women to whom I'm attracted. In addition, some of them possess personality traits that would cause us to be incompatible in a more intimate relationship (but work fine in our friendship).

The corralary to this is the question: If I find a woman attractive (physically, emotionally, intellecually) AND there are not impediments to the relationship (for example me being married or her not finding me attractive), why wouldn't I want a more intimate relationship with her?

So I guess what I'm saying is that yes a man-woman friendship can work. But the vast majority of the time it doesn't stop there if there are no impediments to a more intimate relationship.

 

[KDLadage]

I just have to comment on this. first let me say...well what a terrible thing that was. I sympathize cause this is very similiar to me and my mom and her feelings about my gayness...since I moved out of her house and my partner and I have been living together our relationship has detriorated massively.
But thats how I am to..I dont notice things like that. Different people evoke different reactions....so I have met guys that were extremely atractive but that I never had anymore interest in than as friends or aquaintences.

First let me say: good luck to you. It can be tough having tings come between you and family. But one has to be true to one's self. I hope it all works out for you. You have my prayers (if you want them).

Second, let me say that a good friend of mine (Gary) once told me that, in addition to my other apparent blindnesses, I "have no gay-dar."

He and I were roomates for over 20 months. And apparently, I was the only person in the world that was not aware that he was gay. He came out of the closet about a year after he got his own appartment. He and I are still very close friends (having served in the Navy together for several years) and he is the reason I met my wife (long story). He and his partner are great for each other and it is good to see him happy again (being in the closet took its toll on his psyche).

But in the end, it was no big deal. I was only upset because he never felt comfortable with the idea of telling me. Evidently, all of my family, his family and our friends all suspected (or flat out knew) he was gay. I just never saw it coming and they all looked at me like I was some sort of freak for not seeing it.

Oh well.

 

[MerakSpielman]

To me, a "friend" relationship is very akin to a "sibling" relationship. I have few friends. Those friends are very close. Most of them are women. One (that I met in high school) calls me brother, and I call her sister. But that's how I think of all my female friends. More like close family than anything else.

Why don't you feel sexual attraction to your sister? Your mother? Because you can control your hormones, that's why. Lower life forms (like mice and rabbits) could care less what their relationship is towards the object of their desire. We're humans. You can not be attracted to your friends the same way you're not attracted to your family. 'Cause you just don't do that.

 

[barsoomcore]

It was not until that moment that it ever occured to me that my friend was black.

Hey, that happened to me -- not quite so politically or emotionally fraught, though.

My Grade One teacher was Miss Mori, who I adored. She found out I could read and refused to let me read the Grade One textbooks. She just gave me books from the library to read and encouraged me in a habit that I've never grown out of. We didn't exactly stay in touch but she was at my elementary school for the seven years I was there so she was a big part of my childhood.

I had a huge little-boy crush on her for a while.

So I move to Tokyo, and I've been there for a year or so and I have a new student whose name is Miko Mori. I greet her and say, "What a coincidence, my Grade One teacher's last name was Mori!"

It only then occurs to me that Miss Mori was Japanese. I had to sit down I was so surprised. Of course she was Japanese. She certainly looked Japanese. And yet, never in twenty years had it ever occured to me. Trying to explain that to my new student was an exercise in futility.

The brain is a strange and wonderful place.