We made the DM cry...

[Einan]

Wow.

You guys take this GAME way too seriously.

Keyword being GAME.

Lighten up.

 

[Felon]

Passing through Customs when you get off a plane might seem invasive, too, but I assure you that setting fire to the furniture in retaliation is a bad move.

Very articulate post there. The only statement I need to address is the above analogy. If you are going to the airport, you know you're going through customs. There is implicit consent.

Now, if the wizard said "before we begin discussing this job I have for you, I want to probe your thoughts to see if you're an assassin", then there's an allowance for express consent. Here's a condition, take it or leave it.

But if the wizard just feels like he has an innate right to rifle through people's private thoughts, permission be damned, then that's like someone feeling entitled to break into your house and go through your personal effects to decide if you're the sort of person he wants to do business with. I'd certainly be upset if I walked in and caught that person in the act. Wouldn't you? It's not the act of someone trying to make a good first impression.

And as you say, these guys are an inhuman lot. He'd probably be better off just assuming they're untrustworthy scum and handling them as such. Scum have their uses.

 

[Mixmaster]

Word of advice.. new DMs should stick to the corebooks before figuring out if they can handle other oddities.

Amen Brother. Preach on!!

Also: The players should be working with the new DM, not trying to "break" his startup. He's probably not going to know the subtleies of DM'ing and the players should "suspend disbelief". He didn't know how to "mind probe" you without simply blurting it out. You should have given him a "mulligan" and ignored it. Likewise with the burning of his chair; you pushed his button and asked for a response - he gave it, then you get angry and swear to kill everybody.

He could have thrown you in jail overnight, just to "cool you off", then let you go the next morning with an apology (and a greater cut). Now he can't.

Relax. Work with him. Point out mistakes (at the end of the session since you are more experienced than he is).

BTW Einan: This GAME is not blackjack or checkers. I, as a DM take it seriously enough to myself and to my GAME to go over my notes, write out my stat blocks and tactics, have pictures and clues for the players, make thier character sheets easy to understand so THEY have a great time in my game (or any game I run for the RPGA). And even a GAME like blackjack, you have to discuss stategy or your just throwing your money away.

This community give their views in a kindly and helpful fashion, and I am thankful that I have EnWorld as a resource.

If you have that in a DM, make sure when you hit your knees at night, you give thanks that you have him.

 

[DarrenGMiller]

As Einan pointed out, this is a game and people should lighten up.

A game is supposed to be fun. Fun for both the players AND the DM/GM. Unfortunately it seems that some think that as long as the players are having fun then everything is fine. What is forgotten is that the DM is a player too. The only way for a DM to get more experience and do a better job is to make his mistakes with players he can trust (and the players should trust that the DM is going to do the best he is capable of doing).

If the only way for the players to have fun is to undermine the DM or intentionally waste his work in providing an entertaining and interesting game for the players (not saying this was intentional), then the DM is going to quit running the game (or should).

This adversarial gaming style, or

game-busting, "look how cool I am," i-deserve-more-time-than-anyone-else-in-this-game type personalities

seem to be becoming more common lately. On my game's messageboard, a player of mine who has this attitude (and caused me to stop running the game for a time) expressed the opinion that this is the way things are now and that the game and the players will never be like I remember them from "my youth" (he is 19 and I am 34), so I need to learn to live with it, because that is just how people are today, basically. I just don't buy it. I told him that there are lots of people that are playing the game that are not that way. I am strongly considering not inviting him when I resume the game.

It IS a game and it SHOULD be fun... for EVERYONE at the table.

DM

 

[Mark]

On my game's messageboard, a player of mine who has this attitude (and caused me to stop running the game for a time) expressed the opinion that this is the way things are now and that the game and the players will never be like I remember them from "my youth" (he is 19 and I am 34), so I need to learn to live with it, because that is just how people are today, basically. I just don't buy it. I told him that there are lots of people that are playing the game that are not that way. I am strongly considering not inviting him when I resume the game.

Stongly considering? I'd have deleted his account on the message board, first, and then shot him an email to let him know he should avoid being around me. People like that are easy to void from one's life.

As for Anthro78 and his posse...allow me to run a little game for you sometime, friend...

 

[DarrenGMiller]

Stongly considering? I'd have deleted his account on the message board, first, and then shot him an email to let him know he should avoid being around me. People like that are easy to void from one's life.

Unfortunately, as my other players have called me numerous times during my brief hiatus to remind me, "You just don't cut friends out of your game." He is scheduled to leave town within the next 6 months and they think I should let him in until then, or I am betraying his friendship.

On an interesting note, he also runs a game for another group and this group is also looking for a way to tell their very good friend that they are not having fun playing the game he is running for them either. They have taken to having sessions with another player (who was also in my group) runnning the game that they do not tell him about.

It all leaves me in a quandary about "doing the right thing." Good judgement tells me to shoot him an email telling him exactly why I think he is not a good fit for my campaign (though I have told everyone the reasons I stopped running the game, I am not convinced that he realizes that those responsible include him in a HUGE way). His other group does not want to hurt his feelings or destroy the friendship either, though they are thinking about moving their game to the same night as mine, so he has to choose.

My take on it from my perspective is that it is not about friendship as much as it is about preserving my sanity and enjoyment of the game.

DM

 

[Mark]

Unfortunately, as my other players have called me numerous times during my brief hiatus to remind me, "You just don't cut friends out of your game." He is scheduled to leave town within the next 6 months and they think I should let him in until then, or I am betraying his friendship.

On an interesting note, he also runs a game for another group and this group is also looking for a way to tell their very good friend that they are not having fun playing the game he is running for them either. They have taken to having sessions with another player (who was also in my group) runnning the game that they do not tell him about.

It all leaves me in a quandary about "doing the right thing." Good judgement tells me to shoot him an email telling him exactly why I think he is not a good fit for my campaign (though I have told everyone the reasons I stopped running the game, I am not convinced that he realizes that those responsible include him in a HUGE way). His other group does not want to hurt his feelings or destroy the friendship either, though they are thinking about moving their game to the same night as mine, so he has to choose.

My take on it from my perspective is that it is not about friendship as much as it is about preserving my sanity and enjoyment of the game.

DM

He doesn't sound like a friend. He sounds like a bully who needs to be taught a lesson.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

On my game's messageboard, a player of mine who has this attitude (and caused me to stop running the game for a time) expressed the opinion that this is the way things are now and that the game and the players will never be like I remember them from "my youth" (he is 19 and I am 34), so I need to learn to live with it, because that is just how people are today, basically. I just don't buy it. I told him that there are lots of people that are playing the game that are not that way. I am strongly considering not inviting him when I resume the game.

I'm 18 and I don't buy it. I still can't understand the need to be so adversarial in a game like D&D...though, truthfully, I've never encountered it before. Online or face to face.

 

[DarrenGMiller]

I'm 18 and I don't buy it. I still can't understand the need to be so adversarial in a game like D&D...though, truthfully, I've never encountered it before. Online or face to face.

To be fair, let me quote his words in a thread about the social contract at the gaming table:

as for the social contract, its sort of what has just become of gaming because of editions and just general social norms. people have become less complacent and more ass-holish.

Sorry for the last word, if I need to edit, let me know and I will.

Finally, he ends with:

we all have to admit that not every decision made by a DM was enjoyable. it may have suited him at the time, but how much fun did everyone else have?

to defend an adversarial game.

While he is to some degree correct on the last point, where is the line drawn?

DM

 

[Mark]

While he is to some degree correct on the last point, where is the line drawn?

Before your nose, as it were. If you aren't having fun, just boot him, but do it politely. If people want you to run their game and not have fun, then they are basically treating you like their servant. That don't fly, IMO.