We made the DM cry...

[Von Ether]

Please explain. Why does that "amuse" you, and why does that constitute an "offense"? Having PC's work as members of a larger organization is a perfectly good hook. In fact, as opposed to a bunch of guys from different backgrounds who all bumped into each other in a tavern or dungeon entrance, it's a superior one.

It amuses me in that he used to call me lazy for using such large organizations as benefactors in the game and insisted that I expend extra effort to get his PC on board when the set up was fine with everyone else that was playing.

Then when he starts to run a game, he's discovered that perhaps I wasn't as "lazy" as he thought I was.

On a similar note, he was also a player who constantly asked for special favors and benefits beyond what anyone else asked for. As a GM, he actually cut out parts of character creation (lower character building points than standard play, eliminated core PC races from play, etc.) to create weaker than standard PCs, never mind special favors.

 

[Sholari]

Well, it was a party of a stone golem monk, a yuan-ti pureblood ranger, a thri-keen barbarian and my character, a human warlock, all first level pc's. (The DM has a problem with ECL so he threw it out. My first character, a balor rougue was rejected...)

Hmmm... sounds like your problem and a lot of the problem with player's option books in general have been identified right there.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

So, a previous session ends with our sixth level party facing off against a CR 8+ house templated fire demon. Most disturbingly, we're able to find out that it has a pretty hefty DR against non magical weapons (no one had any magical weapons at that point), and most of my spells are going to be ineffective against it. We leave off just before the first blow, our DM cackling madly.

Over the course of the next week, the group is treated to my cries of "we're so dead," and mostly agrees (mind you, not all of us are going to die, just a couple). So, the fateful day arrives, and I'm smiling all the way to the session.

My turn comes around. The DM asks what I'm going to do. "I'm going to cast haste on myself."

"You're going to haste yourself?" He's puzzled.

"Yeah."

This is the 3.0 haste, mind you, and several seconds later I'm cheering on a heavily enchanted barbarian and throwing out my last magic weapon spell. From there, it's just trying to inflict penalties on the thing via low level spells. But the shift to a full offenseive was what we needed. I knew that if this was going to work, we'd need to overwhelm it fast (the 6 rounds we had that my spells would last). And we did, stunningly, throwing everything we had at it.

In retribution, it's final strike took me to 0 hp. My last action was to laugh smugly before passing out.

And, of course, there's the glories of glitterdust and DC 22 saves.

 

[Empress]

Most patrons also have a higher social standing than most 1st level PCs. That means that they are allowed to do things that the PCs may not like. Society often says its okay, and they have the power to back it up. Which is why, in this case, the PC ends up in prison swearing to kill the NPC's family. "Mind probing" ala Detect Thoughts might be invasive, but it is a tactic that few PCs think is unethical when they are doing it.

I also want to come back to

My reaction of course is to have my character react as they would naturally instead of trying to work with the NPC just because I know that I'm "supposed to".

I've bolded the important part.

The thing is, you can have your character react "naturally" without disrupting the game. Aside from asking whether aggressive action is really a natural response to a magical intrusion (which sounds to me more like anti-social behavious, truth be told), there are many different ways you could have your character react to it:

a) Ask the wizard to stop.
b) threaten the wizard to stop (depending on your character, a) or b) would be more likely)
c) think to the wizard. Either "I know what you're doing, stop it." or "Hmm... the wizard looks good. I wonder if he... I'm just glad he doesn't read my mind." or something similar.
d) smile, swallow your pride, and plan retribution later, since the wizard is in a position of power.
e) stand up, excuse yourself that you're not going to work for someone who spies on your thoughts, and leave.
f) tell the wizard if he wants you to help him, he has to put some amount of faith and trust in you, instead of magically intruding into your mind.
g) you might tell the GM Out Of Game that you, or your character, will not react favorably to such an intrusion and that she should think about the mind probe again, before you react badly. Tell her that it's no fun for you to be a lab rat for his high-level NPCs.

All these reactions serve to keep the game going instead of forcing the GM's hand. These are reactions that don't leave your character as a pawn, but still keep the cooperative part of the game running.

And I'm sure there are more options. I get the feeling that "reaction naturally" is often not a natural reaction, but an exaggerated and often rash one.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Very articulate post there. The only statement I need to address is the above analogy. If you are going to the airport, you know you're going through customs. There is implicit consent.

Line directly before the one you quoted:

"Mind probing" ala Detect Thoughts might be invasive, but it is a tactic that few PCs think is unethical when they are doing it.​

 

[Squire James]

Okay, I started this thread to have a bit of fun, not to gloat that we made the DM cry, which is a joke. He didn't cry. He just got that "I've lost control" look in his eye. And then stopped the game.

<trimmed for brevity>

Sure, I've lost control like that. Y'know, it was not funny. Looking back at it, it STILL isn't funny. I haven't a strong urge (a weak urge, yes) to talk about it in detail. This sort of thing will happen from time to time by accident, but it shouldn't happen to a DM ON HIS VERY FIRST DAY ON PURPOSE!

Enough said. Just realize that you and your friends did the DM bad that day, and act to make up for it. Everyone will feel better in the end.

By the way, change that Humor tag. This issue simply isn't funny.

 

[Raven Crowking]

The thing is, what exactly do 1st level characters have that a powerful wizard would want to steal?

Now, I'm just spit-balling here, but I imagine that, after making these wonky over-powered characters the PCs considered attacking their potential patron and taking his stuff. I then guess that the DM said, "Sorry, guys, but he had detect thoughts cast, and you no longer have your weapons." It is my guess that the chair-lighting and death-threatening ensued.

If not, what exactly was the wizard supposedly stealing?


RC



EDIT: Just so that we are clear, I am suggesting that perhaps the "mind probing" and "stealing" occurred as an attempt by the DM to make the game work by discouraging certain actions. Not a sophisticated attempt, mind you, but if we are talking about someone who has never (or almost never) DMed before, this is a plausible scenario. I am suggesting that the attempts to disrupt the game began with character creation and, while culminating in death threats and chair-burning, are probably not restricted to the first and last things that happened that day.

 

[rvalle]

Ok, first you have to remember this was about... gods, 20 years ago and our dm was still in high school (he still dm's for us from time to time).

He had a plan to get us out of our armor. I think he wanted us to have that 'we're so vulnerable' feeling. So he put a 10' wide pit in the hallway and told us we could jump it but not if we were wearing the heavy armor.

Ok, we say, we take it off...

Dm looks happy

and throw it over the pit. Then we jump over and put it back on.

And there it was... 'The Look'. The 'oh my god I didn't think of that' look.

So, he panics.

You can't do that he says.

Why we ask.

Armor is not made to be thrown.



rv

 

[werk]

Line directly before the one you quoted:
Mind probing" ala Detect Thoughts might be invasive, but it is a tactic that few PCs think is unethical when they are doing it.

I love that...let's try to put it in perspective. You were the "city wizard" for your whole region, legally allowed to practice magic in a magic-hater society, and probably pretty good at it or at least pride yourself on your position. You have a dinner party with a GOLEM, a THRIKREEN, and a YUANTI...you think you are in charge...you should be in charge.

Here's how it would go for me:
<sits down around table>
"OK, freaks, yur in my town now, and if you don't want to get run out or run through by the royal guard you'll do as I say. I'm your boss now...anybody have a problem with that?"

If yes, they get a sound beating. If no, then we are partners.

I think the real issue is that your players didn't realize that they were not in control of the situation...they didn't feel like they had to play along. Especially at low level, and with the races you've chosen, these players should always feel like there is a mob of townspeople with torches and pitchforks around the next corner. They need every friend they can get...ever safe haven...they are monstorus freaks!

I would have either killed the offending character with a spell or ported out and sent in the troops...teach em a lesson...I know you are a big evil freak, but you have to play nice or you get beat down because you are not the biggest freak in town.

 

[jasper]

New Dms should be treated as your young 6 year son , or your younger brother, wehen gaming. Ignore the plot holes and most game mistakes until he gets a few laps of xp.