We went from 5 saving throws to...64!

[ThirdWizard]

I believe I count 64 character sheets on that page.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I believe I count 64 character sheets on that page.

Hm... how high is your save against rogue? I know I always fail my save against beguilers, especially female ones!

 

[Land Outcast]

save against rouge? because of a female beguiler?

 

[phindar]

Nah. The evidence clearly suggests he's using Scorching Ray, which as a ranged touch attack doesn't allow a save if it hits.

No, the image of Emirikol is obviously an illusion, actually 8 separate ones (the horse, Emirikol, four horse shoes, the cloak, and the mouse in his pocket no one can see). Since the 8 observers are interacting with all 8 illusions, 64 saves.

Where do I get my prize money?

 

[TarionzCousin]

...and the mouse in his pocket no one can see.

I believe that an illusion that no one can see is called a _________________ (fill in the blank).

A. Figment of your imagination
B. Phantasm
C. Hypersmurf


Go get 'em folks!

 

[icedrake]

Zomg! I failed my spot check and you harvested my moon!

Curse you MMOs! Curse you!

(rolls a powers check)

 

[Emirikol]

OK, nobody's seeing the redundancy of having both a skill and a saving throw mechanic? Saving throws really represent "nothing." Why the seperate mechanic? Why not just make them part of skills?

In 1E there were 5 saving throws. Then we went to 3 saving throws and 61 skills (see the latest character sheet on wotc.com.

Perhaps it's just not dawned on anyone else yet, but the redundancy just sticks out.

It would be like having hit points and dodge points.


jh

 

[Khairn]

OK, nobody's seeing the redundancy of having both a skill and a saving throw mechanic? Saving throws really represent "nothing." Why the seperate mechanic? Why not just make them part of skills?

Sorry but I see them performing separate functions and therefore don't have a problem with them having separate mechanics. Personally I've always had a problem understanding the logic of those players who wanted to throw them together into the same pot. But hey ... it's your game, so trash the "saves" and just make them skills.

 

[Crothian]

OK, nobody's seeing the redundancy of having both a skill and a saving throw mechanic? Saving throws really represent "nothing." Why the seperate mechanic? Why not just make them part of skills?

What redundancy? Saving throws do represent something. The mechanic is actually the same for them d20+bonus. I'm not seeing your point.

 

[icedrake]

OK, nobody's seeing the redundancy of having both a skill and a saving throw mechanic? Saving throws really represent "nothing." Why the seperate mechanic? Why not just make them part of skills?

In 1E there were 5 saving throws. Then we went to 3 saving throws and 61 skills (see the latest character sheet on wotc.com.

Perhaps it's just not dawned on anyone else yet, but the redundancy just sticks out.

It would be like having hit points and dodge points.


jh

What about non-weapon profieciencies from ADnD?

Skills are not and should not be saves as the two represent two very different concepts that the game's trying to model. Skills are trained or learned and Saves are innate resistances.

I can understand people who want to combine several skills into one, Jump, Tumble and Balance into one, Spot and Listen into another, Hide and Move Silently are fine examples of that. I'll admit that there are a number of examples where a save or skill check could be made in place of one another, example: falling, climb check to try grasping a wall or reflex to avoid such a mishap.

Really, the two are very different, especially b/c of spells. Saves need to at least exist since spells require a kind of resistance mechianc to represent a person's ability to throw off such affects. Look at enverionmental conditions, too, such as heat exchuastion and drowning. You shouldn't be making swim checks for holding your breath, you should be making fort saves.