Weapon Classes vs. Implement Classes

[robotsinmyhead]

As Ed Gentry said - the proficiency bonus is compensated by the lack of armor bonus to AC.

If you look in the DMG, you will notice this reflected in most monster creation guidelines, too. AC is usually higher then the other defenses. (Exceptions are Brutes, I think, which have all the same base defenses, with fortitude in practice being the highest). Likewise, all monster attacks vs AC are higher then attacks vs other defenses.

This is the only justification I could come up with for the lack of Proficiency bonus on implements. I'm playing/running an online game, and one of our players (a long-standing power Wizard/Sorc player) is really let down by this little quirk in 4e.

It also doesn't quite explain away some of the overwhelming powers that other classes get (I'm thinking Piercing Strike - Rogue At-Will DEX vs REF attack) that seem really powerful in terms of TO HIT bonuses compared to most implement attacks.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Most caster powers (meaning those using implements and not traditional weapons) don't target AC. They target Ref, Fort, etc. which are almost never as high as AC. Traditional weapons DO target AC, so characters using them need a bit of a boost to make up the difference.

That said, as a player of a Warlock at level 9 so far...I'm definitely feeling out-matched by
both the fighter and the rogue in my party in terms of damage.

The fighter and the rogue won't really do much except soak damage and dole out hits.

As a warlock, you should be doing a fair bit more control. It's easy to use the warlock powers passively and get some small benefit: taking your temporary hitpoints from infernal pact as a buffer in case you get hit, using dire radiance, eyebite or hellish rebuke purely to defend yourself.

At a guess: you end most adventuring days with plenty of surges left, while the fighter and rogue are down to none?

Instead I think you need to use those benefits aggressively. Dire radiance can be used to force a foe to stay in an undesireable position or forgo a flank, or even more aggressively still be used in conjunction with another player's push or slide power to automatically deal the extra damage. Hellish rebuke or eyebite can be used to allow you to block a square or safely provide a flank. Temporary hitpoints from infernal pact are best used if they are consumed: get in there and take some hits. Make use of fey step to get you your prime shot bonus.

It also doesn't quite explain away some of the overwhelming powers that other classes get (I'm thinking Piercing Strike - Rogue At-Will DEX vs REF attack) that seem really powerful in terms of TO HIT bonuses compared to most implement attacks.

Ignoring sneak attack and curses for the moment, piercing strike will do 1d6+dex mod damage with +3 to hit. It also requires you to be in melee.

Eldritch blast, targeting the same defense does 1d10+cha/con with a +1 to hit if you're the closest in your party to the target.

So - +2 to hit is costing roughly 2 points of damage.

 

[Minigiant]

I think it's mostly the difference between the Martial and Arcane power sources that holds back warrlock damage. Martial classes are heavy on damage, taking, avoiding, and dealing it. The arcane classes are more about special effects and elemental damage type. The warlock, artifcer, and wizard have more tricks via powers and implements that the wepon based classes.

 

[Skyscraper]

Weapons are, in general, balanced within a same group. I.e. one-handed simple weapons are pretty much equivalent, two-handed simple weapons are pretty much equivalent, one-handed military are pretty much equivalent, and so on. (There's a detailed math thread here on ENWorld that analyzes weapons and comes to this conclusion, look for it if you don't trust my statement. But intuitively, i'm sure you can assess that by yourself.) By equivalent, i don't mean they all use the same damage die, which is only part of the problem. However, they'll have about the same damage output, including special properties such as high crit, higher proficiency, etc...

A PC of a given class is assumed to be using a weapon with which he is proficient. With all weapons being substantially equivalent within a given group, damage output for a class can be determined according to the best weapons available for that class (i.e. it is assumed that the fighter will not fight with a club but that he will use military weapons).

Consequently, damage output for the weapon-using classes at a given level can be (and probably is) balanced with the damage output from the implement-using classes.

However, if a PC decides to use sub-optimal weapons, only then will there be imbalance, but contrarily to what you suggest in your post, it is the weapon-wielding classes that can lose in the trade if they pick the wrong weapons. Picking the right weapons puts them on par with the implement classes.

The above doesn't take into consideration differences between roles (striker, etc...) and other class-balancing issues. It only looks at using a weapon vs using an implement power, ceteris paribus.

Sky