Weapon size question- greek style phalanx

[Darklone]

I'd like to build my good old Greek style phalanx with hoplites wielding large spears... at a -2 penalty to hit, but with 20ft reach (can't attack at 5ft and 10ft).

As I understood the weapon size rules, they can't wield a large twohanded weapon... right?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think there's an epic feat for wielding Oversize Weapons, in CW.

If you want my opinion: allow them to use it, but only to set against a charge. To use them for other things than skewering charging enemies, they'll need a new feat called "The Other Phalanx Fighting" (;-)) that lets them use a very long longspear.

 

[billd91]

If you want my opinion: allow them to use it, but only to set against a charge. To use them for other things than skewering charging enemies, they'll need a new feat called "The Other Phalanx Fighting" (;-)) that lets them use a very long longspear.

Or just come up with a new marital weapon, the pike. Give it a 15' reach (can't attack at 10' or 5') and if you really feel the need to do so, cut it's damage down to 1d6 instead of 1d8 to reflect a lighter head devised to make it easier to tote and move around with such a long length of pole. Not very useful in most melee situations but would really make a body of pikemen nasty to close with.

 

[Felix]

/History Question

I thought the hoplites fought with shield and spear, and generally stayed away from the two handed weapons. Did they do otherwise when in phalanx, or is that just me?

 

[Teslacoil1138]

That was my understanding too. In all the Greek pottery paintings you see, most had a shield of some sort and a spear. Also I read their spears were 8 feet long, so it would be more like a longspear I think.

 

[Destil]

I've been mulling over the rule where the shortspear (Large simple weapon 1d8 damage x3 crit) is handled as a simple large weapon or a medium martial weapon, sort of like a bastard sword.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's a minor failing of 3E that it doesn't allow for spear & shield. The phallanx was strictly a military formation, and the hoplite's panoply was not the best kit for a duel, so it's an understandible omission.

In 3.0, you could 'fake it' using a Tower Shield and (of all things) a Heavy Lance. This gave you stabby weapon with reach, and a shield defense with facing, both of which you really need to capture the feel of the phalanx - the advancing wall of spears and shields. It'd also be realistically ineffective in many D&D combats.

In 3.5, you have to stretch even further, arming yourself with a 'small' (for a small-size character) reach weapon, and a Tower Shield. This gives you a -2 attack for the wrong-size weapon, and another -2 for the Tower Shield, making it quite a poor choice of armament - even the advantages of formation fighting probably won't make up for it. Oppossed forces of 1st level warriors so armed would hit eachother only on a 20.

I like the idea of ruling that simple two-handed spears (which includes the Longspear in 3.5) can be used one-handed with Martial Weapon Proficiency. It enables a much more straightforward modeling of commonplace historical tactics, like the phallanx.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Or just come up with a new marital weapon, the pike.

A marital weapon with 15' reach?

That's disgusting.

-Hyp.

 

[aurance]

I really like the "one-handed with martial weapon proficiency" idea for spear. However, then the battleaxe becomes simply inferior, because it is also a 1d8/x3 one-handed martial weapon, that cannot be thrown nor set for charge like the spear can, and more expensive to boot.

Any ideas on what to do about this? Or should anything be done? Maybe battleaxes are just inferior weapons, but never having wielded one I cannot say.

 

[Teslacoil1138]

The fact that most historical pre-gunpowder armies used spears as their main weapons should tell you something. Spears are a lot cheaper to make than axes (don't even need iron for the spearhead), hence, mass distribution is possible with spears. So yeah, I'd say it's a better weapon for an army.