Weapon-specific Feats and Size Change

[Vyvyan Basterd]

A human Fighter has Weapon Focus (longsword) and is then polymorphed into an Ogre. Does he have Weapon Focus (...

A) Longsword (medium-size)
B) Large Longsword (advanced using rules in MM and S&F)
C) Greatsword (because a Large Longsword is the equivalent of a Greatsword)

What happens if said fighter has Weapon Focus (dagger) and is then polymorphed into an Ogre. Does he have Weapon Focus (...

A) Dagger (tiny; which a Large creature cannot effectively wield, thus the polymorphed PC would, in essence, loose access to his feat)
B) Small Dagger (advanced using rules in MM and S&F)
C) Short Sword (because a Small Dagger is the equivalent of a Short Sword)

Should weapon-specific feats change to be relative with your original size? Or should they stay constant no matter what size you become? Is an advanced weapon with the same stats as a similar weapon its own unique weapon or does it basically become the equivalent of the larger weapon?

 

[mkletch]

This is a major problem with the system. I won;t post my reply (though I have several ideas) simply because not a one would make more than 20% of the gaming population happy.

It is not covered in the rules, unless you rule that everything is ultra-specific; it says one weapon, and so it is that one weapon as in the table, ignoring that weapons outside the weapon table (such as in MM creature stats) exist and use similar terms.

-Fletch!

 

[Mr Fidgit]

because of the specificity of the rules, it's only the original weapon that's affected (longsword - Medium-sized; dagger - Tiny, by your examples)

Mr "i'm painting myself white to reflect the blast" Fidget

 

[Shallown]

a dagger becomes a becomes a small dagger then a meduim dagger then a large dagger. It stays a dagger as far as the person using it is concerned. If their size increases to match the weapon size increase then they keep the feats. To them the weapon is used exactly the same. Now if the weapon sized changed but the user's size did not then the feats do not help.

And mkletch - sorry the game can't cover every contigency. At some point common sense has to kick in and make up for lack of rules. As you said you have ideas and I would just apply those. I dont worry about pleasing the community just myself and my players.

Later

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Shallown: So would the character then have Weapon Focus (any size longsword I can wield)? So polymorphed he could gain his bonus from using a longsword that has been polymorphed to any size from Small to Huge?

This is the first question one of my players has asked me and the answer doesn't just come to me. I can truly see it working any of the ways presented.

Mr Fidget: Bloody hippy!

In general: The question pertains more to newly found weapons. Can you normally find a Large Longsword? Or is polymorphing a creature wielding one the only way to find one?

 

[Cyraneth]

One problem with Fidgit's way of looking at the feats as very specifically is that while it might seem okay for a fighter polymorphed into a frost giant not be able to apply all his weapon-specific feats to the Huge greatsword of the fire giant they killed way back, it might not be as "okay" to rule that the cleric that cast righteous might on himself cannot use his Weapon Focus (heavy mace) just because it has changed size along with him.

This problem popped up in one of our campaigns where a goblin character wanted to have a Small longspear. According to the MM rules (and the example in one of Wizards' gamestoppers section), this weapon that deals a petty 1d4 damage has the impressive reach of 10 feet, as nothing in the rules states that a weapon's reach changes when the size of the weapon changes. Likewise, a Tiny composite longbow has a range of 110 feet, just like a Colossal composite longbow.

- Cyraneth

 

[Crothian]

As the rules are now, Mt Fidgit is correct. A dagger is a tiny weapon, so just because a large sized creature would use a short sword as a dagger doesn't mean a short sword is a dagger. However, as been said the rules don't really cover this, so welcome to the Grey Area of DMing.

 

[Kraedin]

The really fun question is: What happens when a ranger uses a Medium longsword in one hand, and a Small longsword in the other?

Or: What happens when a cleric using a Large greatsword casts righteous might?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Find the way that makes you (and the DM) happy.

Personally I reason thus:
An Elf (medium-size) with Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword) (large) means that the Elf is proficient with a sword that is one size cathegory larger han him and there fore a two-handed weapon for him (with 19-20/x2 crit multiplyer). If he's shrinked now to small size, he could not wield it anymore. But his proficiency would still allow him to use a sword that is one size cathegory larger than him. That would either be a longsword (1d8 19-20/x2), a medium-size greatsword (shrinked for 1d6 19-20/x20), or a large shortsword (1d8 19-20/x2).

 

[mkletch]

Find the way that makes you (and the DM) happy.

Personally I reason thus:
An Elf (medium-size) with Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword) (large) means that the Elf is proficient with a sword that is one size cathegory larger han him and there fore a two-handed weapon for him (with 19-20/x2 crit multiplyer). If he's shrinked now to small size, he could not wield it anymore. But his proficiency would still allow him to use a sword that is one size cathegory larger than him. That would either be a longsword (1d8 19-20/x2), a medium-size greatsword (shrinked for 1d6 19-20/x20), or a large shortsword (1d8 19-20/x2).

Actually, check the SRD, Equipment I. Going upwards, a dagger translates exactly into a short sword, a short sword translates exactly into a longsword, and a longsword or bastard sword translate exactly into a greatsword. Going downward, the short sword translates exactly into a dagger, and a longsword translates exactly into a short sword. It gets a bit funky reducing the greatsword and bastard sword, though, since they have their own conversion; you don't reverse the previous increases. Bastard sword goes to short sword, and great sword goes to 2d4 base damage, which does not exist for a medium weapon with a sword type critical (which is what a 19-20 crit is often referred to).

Getting hardass about it, a Small dagger would have a larger grip than a short sword, and a large longsword would have different grip proportions than a greatsword. While the business end (the blade) would be relatively the same, the wielder would react differently to a Small dagger and a Small short sword. All of the weapon names are based around the average character wielder being a medium size creature. So when you take a weapon-specific feat, you must specify weapon as well as relative size. If the human warrior is polymorphed to being large, he would still get his feats with a large longsword instead of medium. If the warrior was proficient with shortsword, he would need a medium shortsword; a longsword, though medium size, would not do it.

Then again, if a sorcerer was increased to large size, he would no longer be able to use his medium-size spell component pouch, and would not be able to cast spells with material components.

-Fletch!