Weapons of Legacy Question

[Olaf the Stout]

Well can you maybe look OUTSIDE the DMG II? Arms and Armor 3.5 has some ideas, I know that there's also using BoED with their "relic" rules might work. Uhm those are a few off the top of my head. Oh wait! Almost forgot, Vigil Watch: Secrets of the Assatthi, has "blade" feats but I'm sure you can adapt them to other items as well.

I don't have either of Arms & Armour 3.5 or the Book of Exalted Deeds and I have other books that I would like to get before either of them. Only so much money to go around!

I'm not saying that WoL or the DMG II (or WotC books in general) are the be all and end all. I'm sure that someone has come up with a good system for it. I have a Dragon issue that kind of touches on the topic, although it involves sacrificing XP and was a little more ad-hoc from memory.

Olaf the Stout

 

[MerricB]

Are there other negatives besides the -2 to hit though. Most items normally affected skills, HP's or saves as well (or spell slots for casters).

Olaf the Stout

Items of Legacy are designed with particular classes in mind. So, Alden's Greatsword penalises attack bonus, saves and hit points (all of which are strong for fighters). Peggy's Staff penalises skills, saves, spell slots and caster level. Tom's bow penalises attack bonus (though a lesser penalty), skills and hit points.

I had to design my own penalty progression for Greg's incarnate (it penalises essentia, attack bonus & HP).

Cheers!

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Nope. Most of its abilities are "1/day" or "3/day", although there are a few constant abilities (read magic, scorching ray) as noted.

I'm pretty certain that my group doesn't browse EN World much, so here's the full Staff of Dragon's Tears:

5th: 3/day-magic missile
6th: (lose 1st level slot) At will-detect magic, read magic, arcane mark
7th: (-1 all saves; -1 caster level) -
8th: (-1 all skills; lose 2nd level slot) +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence or Charisma
9th: 3/day - Lesser Enlarge Spell
10th: (lose 3rd level slot); +5 competence bonus to Spellcraft checks
11th: 3/day - Lesser Empower Spell
12th: (lose 4th level slot); at will - scorching ray
13th: 1/day - fireball
14th: (lose 5th level slot); +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence or Charisma
15th: (-2 to caster level); Darkvision 60 ft.
16th: (lose 6th level slot); 3/day - Extend Spell
17th: +6 enhancement to Intelligence or Charisma; see invisibility
18th: (lose 7th level slot); 3/day - Greater Enlarge Spell
19th: 3/day - Lesser Quicken Spell
20th: (lose 8th level slot); 3/day - Empower Spell

Legacy Rituals:
Least (3,500 gp): Travel to a shrine of Corellon Larethian and ask the blessing of the god of the elves.
Lesser (13,500 gp): Engage in research of the planes and arcane magic at a greater library.
Greater (43,000 gp): Stand in judgement before one of the seven Gold Dragons who serve Bahamut.

Note: all penalties are non-cumulative in this case; at 18th level, Peggy has -2 to all skills, -1 to all saves, -1 to caster level and has lost one 7th level slot. Assuming I've copied them down correctly, of course!

Cheers!

So based on that, I take it that you make the loss of spell slots non-cumulative? In the book it says in one section (near the beginning I think) that they are non-cumulative then in the design your own WoL section it says that they are cumulative!

Olaf the Stout

 

[MerricB]

I have a Dragon issue that kind of touches on the topic, although it involves sacrificing XP and was a little more ad-hoc from memory.

One of the interesting things about sacrificing XP is that either (a) it isn't enough, and doesn't do much, or (b) it knocks someone down a level and is more severe than a WoL!

An 11th level fighter with a WoL has perhaps -1 to attacks, -1 to saves and -6 hp.

However, a 10th level fighter (an 11th level with an XP penalty) has -1 to attacks and loses an iterative attack and probably -8 hp or more.

The loss of a level is *far* more severe than the penalties of an item of legacy.

One of the other systems I've seen (game mechanics; it's in Unearthed Arcana) requires prestige classes for each weapon... and that is *really* clunky. The weapon takes over, and you're no longer defined by whatever class (or prestige class) you wanted to take, but are forced into a path by the weapon.

Cheers!

 

[Nightfall]

Olaf,

Well I'm just saying that you might want to "flex" your financial muscle and consider some of these options/books as ways to "increase" your ability to customise your weapons of legacy.
But again this is entirely your choice Olaf. I'll do what I can here to help.

Merric is also correct about the Pr-class thing, it's helpful but darn clunky. I still like XP but I think combos of XP, HP, and maybe Gold/Ability score drain might be considerations.

 

[MerricB]

So based on that, I take it that you make the loss of spell slots non-cumulative? In the book it says in one section (near the beginning I think) that they are non-cumulative then in the design your own WoL section it says that they are cumulative!

I'll double check the book - but spell slot loss has always been non-cumulative from my reading of it.

Cheers!

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Items of Legacy are designed with particular classes in mind. So, Alden's Greatsword penalises attack bonus, saves and hit points (all of which are strong for fighters). Peggy's Staff penalises skills, saves, spell slots and caster level. Tom's bow penalises attack bonus (though a lesser penalty), skills and hit points.

I had to design my own penalty progression for Greg's incarnate (it penalises essentia, attack bonus & HP).

Cheers!

I take it that you used the different tables in the design-your-own-WoL section?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Nightfall]

Merric,

So...is Alden's greatsword, has it drunk the blood yet of the older brother Ebon Aspect yet?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I'll double check the book - but spell slot loss has always been non-cumulative from my reading of it.

Cheers!

I'm pretty sure that is say that that hit point, skill point and spell slot losses are all cumulative in the design-your-own section at the back. It's near the various tables that tells you what things the PC loses when he levels up.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Nightfall]

Well maybe Merric was being nice and decided to ignore that rule, Olaf.