Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
As usual for the showcase, these builds are intended to spur discussion and perhaps inspire a few people in the spirit of the old CO boards. They come from members of my gaming group - me, Radical Taoist, DisposableHero_, Andarious, Sionnis, and Seishi - and I'll always identify who wrote the build at the start, so do not assume I'm the guy behind all of them (because I'm not!).
Unless otherwise noted, showcase builds use 28 point-buy, and have their snapshots evaluated using fractional base attack / saves (because it simplifies the math). None of them actually rely on fractional to be built, though. The format I use showcases their progression at key levels rather than just presenting the build and showing off a few tricks at level 20; most of these are capable of being played 1-20 if you so choose.
With that out of the way, let's get started. This week, we have a Tashalatora Monk/Psychic Warrior build from RT (so you know who to blame) that hinges on a lot of synergy from a feat found in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Wait, where are you going? Don’t run away!
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GOD HAND
What did the five fingers say to the face?
Required Books: Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Secrets of Sarlona, Complete Warrior, Complete Psionic, Planar Handbook, Book of Exalted Deeds (forgive us, it’s not that bad really)
Unearthed Arcana used: None!
Background: A Tashalatora Monk/Psychic Warrior already enjoys Wisdom to Will saves and manifesting. RT decided to push Wis synergy even further, with a focus on maxing out Stunning Fist DCs and using Intuitive Attack to replace Str with Wis for unarmed attack rolls. The result is an accurate, well-defended, and versatile tank that will have enemies cowering in fear of his epic backhand of justice.
The Basics
Skill Notes: Max out Concentration after you’ve met the prereqs for Tashalatora (Concentration 5, Autohypnosis 5). I’ll admit that the low Int in the initial stat array hurts – it really delays Tashalatora more than it would otherwise (it’s kind of hard to get the skill points for Autohypnosis on a monk (not a class skill) with an Intelligence penalty (stupid psywars only get 1 skill point per level)).
Basic Equipment: Ahem. Monk.
Magical Gear Goals: Ki Straps from the Magic Item Compendium can eke out an extra +2 to your Stunning Fist DC, which gets a bit more mileage here than in other builds. Other than that, you’re a Wis-SAD melee build, and should equip accordingly. You also have the full Tashalatora package, so some items which only work for monks can still show up here, as well as the usual selection of psychic warrior manifesting-support items. (You’ll probably want to dip into dorjes, Manifester weaponry, Torcs of Power Preservation, and similar stamina-enhancing items.)
The Build.
Build Stub: Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18
1 – Monk – (Flurry of blows, unarmed strike) (Stunning Fist, Ability Focus: Stunning Fist)
2 – Monk – (Evasion) (Monastic Training: Psychic Warrior)
*
[sblock] Yuck, prereq levels. But they’re kind of required. [/sblock]
3 – Psychic Warrior – (Intuitive Attack, Pain Touch) (Inertial Armor) *
[sblock] Yay, enormous boost to AC, accuracy, and stunning utility all in one level!
(If you're like me and you have a hard time following poorly enunciated lyrics, yes, that move really is called the Ball Buster. An apt analogue.)[/sblock]
4 – Psychic Warrior – (Extra Stunning) (Prevenom Weapon) *
[sblock] Some highly appreciated stamina and a deceptively useful power: unlike most powers (which only scale with more power points), Prevenom Weapon’s DC scales with your manifester level and runs off your primary manifesting stat. You know, that Wisdom score you’re boosting like hell?
If you’re using a higher Intelligence array, and bought Int 14 or more, you can get Tashalatora at this level. This isn’t assumed here though.[/sblock]
5 – Psychic Warrior – (Primal Fear) *
[sblock] The Complete Psionic nerf to this power makes it less useful, but it’s also a commonly ignored nerf (albeit not as commonly ignored as the needless Astral Construct nerf). If you haven’t seen the original power from Races of Eberron, it’s identical to the CPsi version – except no-save. In effect, this turned Primal Fear into a swift-action augment to any effect of yours that has a DC – such as your Stunning Fist / Pain Touch.[/sblock]
6 – Psychic Warrior – (Sun School) (Dimension Swap) *
[sblock] Sun School gets use out of teleports. We can teleport. It gets use out of flurries. We can flurry. It gets use out of stunning. We can stun! Actually, Blinding Glare of Noon is the least useful maneuver here, as with Pain Touch, we don’t WANT or need to stun in consecutive rounds. But the other two maneuvers are great. [/sblock]
7 – Psychic Warrior – (Tashalatora) (Strength of my Enemy) *
[sblock] A HUGE bump in our unarmed damage and general threat level occurs here. Both the feat and power are awesome and have been covered at length both previously in this showcase and elsewhere. Sadly, we had to delay Tashalatora because of its skill reqs. (Why is autohypnosis not a monk class skill? Or for that matter, why aren’t its functions rolled into Concentration?) [/sblock]
8 – Psychic Warrior – (Psionic Lion’s Charge) *
[sblock] Hey, did I mention that we flurry and have Sun School?
As a side note, the augment to this power is weirdly worded. It’s pretty obvious what it should be doing - +1 damage on each charge attack per augmented point – but the literal way it’s worded shows that it scales geometrically. Didn’t really notice that before…
[/sblock]
9 – Psychic Warrior – (Shape Soulmeld: Therapeutic Mantle) (Vampiric Weapon) *
[sblock] This is the level where we more or less stop worrying about our hit points in combat too much; Vampiric Weapon on our fists heals us half our (full monk progression) unarmed strike damage + 3 hit points with every hit. The monk progression – rightly – gets a lot of flak for rolling huge dice but not being very useful with Power Attack; Vampiric Weapon doesn’t care about Power Attack but does care about the size of those damage dice.[/sblock]
10 – Psychic Warrior – (Psycarnum Infusion) (Greater Concealing Amorpha) *
[sblock] Godlike Wis to AC gives a decent touch AC to begin with. We can shore up the non-touch AC over long spans of time with Inertial Armor, but if we need to get the touch even higher, why not stack up a miss chance?
At the moment your only incarnum receptacle is Therapeutic Mantle, which doesn’t benefit all that much from Psycarnum Infusion, but give it two more levels and you’ll see. [/sblock]
11 – Psychic Warrior – (Danger Sense) *
[sblock] A true kung fu master is never caught off guard. This power gives us Uncanny Dodge with an augment, which prevents ambushing and flanking. (Its basic effect is actually kind of weaksauce.)
If this is less of an issue for you, the psywar list has a few other thematically similar powers to swap in. Detect Hostile Intent is a favorite of mine, in part because it’s kind of catchall. [/sblock]
12 – Psychic Warrior – (Sapphire Fist) (Dimension Door) *
[sblock] This is the real reason we got Psycarnum Infusion; use it to boost those DCs. Do NOT invest the point of essentia you get in this feat; it goes to the Mantle to boost Vampiric Weapon more.
And since Dimension Swap probably isn’t cutting it by now, let’s get a better teleportation power. Unlike Primal Fear, Dimension Door actually got more useful in Complete Psionic, with (mechanically interesting but never used outside of that book) negative augments to make the power more efficient. Psychic warriors really need the help with stamina anyway.[/sblock]
13 – Psychic Warrior – (Psionic Meditation) (Steadfast Perception)*
[sblock]A true kung fu master holds no delusions.[/sblock]
14 – Psychic Warrior – (Expansion) *
[sblock] You can probably move this power earlier, where it’ll have a slightly bigger bang, but then again, early on, your medium base attack bonus and Intuitive Attack will actually backfire with Expansion (the size increase comes with an attack penalty, usually compensated for by an increased Strength, but you’re not using Strength for accuracy).[/sblock]
15 – Psychic Warrior – (Improved Essentia Capacity) (Perfect Riposte)
*
[sblock] Perfect Riposte will give you AoOs against enemies who attack you in melee and miss. You have crazy Wis to AC, Inertial Armor, and Greater Concealing Amorpha. They will miss you. Frequently. [/sblock]
16 – Psychic Warrior – (Expanded Knowledge) (Greater Stomp, Telekinetic Maneuver) *
[sblock] The stuff we do to make up for not having Improved Trip… Just check with your DM if it will always use Intelligence for the ability modifier or if it will switch to your key ability modifier. If it’s the latter, you’re going to be kind of boss.
Interestingly, while this power does its own substitutions for base attack and Strength modifier on its maneuvers, it does not replace your size modifier. Go ahead and use Expansion to get a bigger boost on your telekinetic checks! [/sblock]
17 – Psychic Warrior – (Power Weapon) *
[sblock]Mostly a counter to DR; if you want to hit incorporeal creatures, you get a better deal from a Ghost Shroud out of the MIC.[/sblock]
18 – Psychic Warrior – (Expanded Knowledge) (Inconstant Location, Schism) *
[sblock] In the tradition of getting a better teleportation power every 6 levels, time for the fantastic Inconstant Location. This power combines pretty nicely with Sun School as well. Schism lets us TK trip without using our own actions, and can recover focus for us as well. [/sblock]
19 – Psychic Warrior – (Snap Kick) (Form of Doom) *
[sblock] I remind you that we have Psionic Lion’s Charge and Expansion, both of which combine quite nicely with both of these effects. I’m quite fond of Form of Doom, although it’s kind of high leveled for the bang you get (particularly on a Tash build, which is slightly delayed on power access). [/sblock]
20 – Psychic Warrior – (Dispelling Buffer) *
[sblock]Kind of a necessary power for any buffer. [/sblock]
Psionic powers known:
[sblock]By power level:
[/sblock]
Snapshot: Strap on your +6 Wisdom, Constitution, and Dexterity boosters, and Tome up your Wisdom by 5. With no other equipment, we’re looking at 193 HP, +15 base attack (melee +33 with Greater Magic Weapon, with full Monk Flurry and unarmed damage), and saves of 19/13/22. Psionically you’ve got ML 18 and 220 power points, again with no other equipment to improve this stamina. Additionally, you’re looking at 9 Stunning Fist / Pain Touch uses per day, with a DC of 40 without the ki straps (and you can nerf enemy saves somewhat using Prevenom and/or Primal Fear). Defensively, with no equipment besides what’s mentioned here, you’re looking at around 31 base AC and touch AC before Inertial Armor; a pretty basic equipment loadout can easily get that to around 45 or so, and that’s before your buffs kick in.
Overall Strengths: Very powerful baseline AC and enough effects designed to bypass monk-style MAD (Tashalatora, Psywar manifesting, Intuitive Attack, Vampiric Weapon/Therapeutic Mantle), combined with potent stun/nausea DCs and effects that synergize with the “free” monk advancement (again with the Vampiric Weapon, but also Expansion, Snap Kick, Form of Doom, Psionic Lion’s Charge, and Strength of My Enemy) and the well-known teleport/Sun School effects. This sidelines the usual arms race connected to Power Attack (it won’t exceed Power Attack, but that’s not its primary role) and allows you to concentrate on effects that all support unarmed combat. You are surprisingly good at dealing ability damage thanks to Prevenom Weapon and Strength of My Enemy flurries. Finally, Expansion, Schism, and Telekinetic Maneuver allow you to exhibit a touch of action control and tactical combat on the side, again bringing that unarmed damage to bear in a way that a regular ol’ monk simply can’t even attempt (and even swordsages have trouble with – telekinesis has a much longer range than any martial maneuver).
Overall Weaknesses: As you’re not allowed to speak per se, try to avoid enemies smart enough to trigger that in combat by asking for your favourite drink. This also prevents you from throwing out cheesy pre-smackdown taunts – but considering this build’s namesake features a Capcom script, this is probably better dialogue than the original. Similarly, without some serious work on your equipment, you’ll have a problem with your psionic stamina, as with most psychic warrior builds (which should go without mentioning at this point). Your daily stuns are kind of low too (that’s one of the bigger things that Tashalatora doesn’t stack).
Variants: Shuffle the ability scores for more Int and Improved Trip (replace the Expanded Knowledge feats). Alternatively, grab the feats Shape Soulmeld: Worg Pelt and Split Chakra: Hands, and then find a way to open your hands chakra (there’s not a lot of room on your powers known list for Psionic Open Chakra, but it’s available via dorje). Mix with the Bite of the Wolf power and you can pick up a Supertrip ability without the need to boost your Intelligence. You won’t be able to take both the Worg Pelt and the Therapeutic Mantle, though. Finally, an Extra Stunning or two would allow more liberal use of your specialty takedown strikes.
There you have it. Go ahead and dragon-kick your enemies into the milky way.
Next week on the showcase: We're putting up the [AR] 0 Buff Time Gish, which won a vote during an earlier cycle but was skipped over. We've got about four writeups almost ready; once the buffer finalizes you'll be able to vote on them.
Originally posted by Seeron:
If I remember correctly, the lesser aasimar had a WIS bonus too
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
Hmm...this is one of my less favorite builds on the showcase. It's not a bad one by any means but it seems a little vanilla. The builds trick is basically just stapling a few feats that boost stunning fist into a normal Tash build.
Props on using Buomman though. I hardly ever see that race used. You may also want to add dragonborn. This gets rid of the Buommans racial vow of silence. -2 Dex though.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
I find the irony in godhand being based off corny kung fu movies and not being capable to talk an absolute riot! With that being said I'm interested in the build from a pc perspective because it is in general a very vanilla build with a lot of power that any dm would probably allow into a game strictly based off the merit that it is decently plain. Many builds with this one's power I find are shutdown by dms who want to add large amount of flavour and rp into a game. In this case low classes and large cohesivness+simple flavour turn out to be beneficial. I didn't like the build atfirst (more because abomidable throwman sounded sweet) but I think I like it better then T3 because I don't particularily like ardent and how rigid it feels. Psy warrior has more niche powers and open abilities for different character aspects which I prefer.
Originally posted by Count_Von_CoC:
I realize that this doesn't matter at all with the original ability load-out, but why not just take PsyWar at level 1 in order to take Tashalatora at level 3?
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Ah, forgot about that one. Where can you find it?
Intuitive Attack is the other big part of the trick. I'd never seen anyone go Wis SAD before. Dex SAD yes, Str SAD yes, Con SAD yes, ditto the other mental scores. Heck, you can see several in the showcase. But Wis SAD outside of Druids?
Buomman is an underrated race for sure, especially in a party that has access to mindlink or telepathic bond (telepathy doesn't violate the racial vow of silence).
Oh, we tried. But there's only one other feat we can take at 1st level in that case (Shape Soulmeld: Vampiric Weapon), which means our PsyWar 1 bonus feat is wasted on something outside of this feat progression. Now, if you make room for Int 13 and thus Improved Trip, taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at level 1 and then shuffling around other stuff is a perfectly good option - but if you do that, you can get Tashalatora at level 3 anyways. It's not hard to get that feat with enough Int, but hey, don't think, feel.
It doesn't matter too much as Tashalatora doesn't give us an enormous boost until later. Taking it at 3 instead of at 7only gives us 3 more levels of 1d8 damage unarmed strike (instead of 1d6) and 2 more levels of +1 to AC. There's actually no delay in the flurry progression at all - we pick up Tashalatora EXACTLY when a flurry penalty reduction occurs.
Originally posted by StevenO:
It is a little section in toward the back of the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms. Basically the 3.5 update to the setting. In my opinion the "lesser" races in that book can be pretty sick.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
StevenO your new avatar picture is kinda creepy
Originally posted by StevenO:
Odd, I'm now had more people comment on that here then when I changed my FB profile picture to it and there you can even see more of the details.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
I agree completely here. RT, the lesser aasimar is identical to the stock aasimar, except Humanoid type and LA+0. I would think that some of their other goodies - not the least of which is that it's all bonus with no drawback - would warrant more of the gap between +0 and +1 than just the benefits from the Outsider type (which include martial weapon proficiency). Especially given how they usually never have racial hit dice in the first place.
(My guess is that people on FB know your face from more than a forum avatar (be it in person or a larger gallery). I recall switching my avatar around here and people forgot it was me for a while. As if there are that many other long-winded people whose punctuation preferences include prolific parentheses.)
Originally posted by Seeron:
aasimar is in the MM and the rules for lesser versions are in PGtF p. 190. its effectvly replacing the LA with humanoid(planetouched) type.
And cause you onlyight with unarmed strike and nat atks, why not go anthromorphic animal?
Originally posted by Seeron:
i like the idea if a kungfu bat or toad
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Anthropormorphic is 3E which they try to avoid whenever possible plus those races are a little cheesy, the major consensus seems to be they are kind of broken
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Are there any +Wis LA 0 HD 0 anthro animals? If you're an Intuitive Attack Psywar, you don't really need natural attacks from your race. Growing natural attacks are kind of a psywar thing.
Originally posted by Seeron:
i am away from books right now. but i think all of the lower ones are la 0 and hd 0. and +WIS is on all anyway. but you made a point frost.fire
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
"Intuitive Attack is the other big part of the trick. I'd never seen anyone go Wis SAD before. Dex SAD yes, Str SAD yes, Con SAD yes, ditto the other mental scores. Heck, you can see several in the showcase. But Wis SAD outside of Druids?"
True. It's just that when I look at this build compared to...say...Flip the Bird, it sort of pales.
Also:
"Sir Wisdom the SAD
Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6
A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).
Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.
War Mind is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.
Intuitive Attack (Book of Exalted Deeds) which allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons.
Enhanced Elan Resilience (Complete Psionic) improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points (though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis).
And Mage Slayer feats have no effect on caster levels, as the transparency rules have no effect on feats (otherwise a Psychic Warrior could take Practiced Caster and metamagic feats, which they can't). So casters have a lot to fear from you.
Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.
To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).
Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities."
From:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
EDIT: AAARRRRGGGHHH!! Screw it I don't need quotes anyways!
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Its not a big deal, they are still a valid race option I just feel they tend to shy away from things like that, I actually was debating doing a whole anthropomorphic campaign at one point
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
The trouble with the anthropomorphic animals is that the ones with a Wisdom bonus at LA +0 (and 0 racial HD) have penalties on Strength and a Small size that make them less than ideal on the damage side of things, and generally also suffer a penalty to movement speed. They could perform capably on other fronts, but they're downsides absent from the buomman.
The same sort of effect applies to the jermlaine (who is even smaller and weaker).
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Need a way btw blah to get wis to damage unless I missed something
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
If there's a way to add Wis to damage I don' know of it. The God Hand isn't a hit point damage build so much, though. He's awesome at locking people in place, being hard to kill, and doing ability damage. Hard to kill, hard to evade, and dangerous enough that the enemy can't afford to ignore him.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Off the top of my head the only way I know to get Wis to damage is Swordsage, and that's only with X School Maneuvers.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
I believe swordsage can add wis to damage with certain maneuvers
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Oh damn andarious beat me to it
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
I believe I Swordsaged you on that one.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Oh derp - one of my swordsage builds already does that.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
By does that do you mean they are wisdom SAD
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Yep, with Intuitive Attack, Wis to AC, and a ton of Wis-based save DC abilities.
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
What do you think of Sir Wisdom the SAD?
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Fairly solid. I am skeptical about the effectiveness of elan resilience, even with that feat; it's less efficient than Vigor and even an SAD War Mind will not have power points to spare, but otherwise it does what it's meant to do.
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
I expected I a bit more from RT. Stunning Fist is lame, to say the least, and focusing on it? I understand the desire to make crap good, but shutting down all that inventment is easier than a two-cent hooker.
Sorry, man, but I'm really disappointed.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
*shrugs* It's a matter of opportunity cost; this build has feats to spare and is hard Wisdom SAD. But I've noticed that you're not a fan of the Tier 3 or even low Tier 2 stuff (especially given your comments on the 0BTG). If you're rolling Tier 1? You can always drop EK: Telekinetic Maneuver and Snap Kick for Azure Talent and Midnight Augmentation. That gives up tripping but lets you play at the Psycarnum Warrior's trick (and even gives you two more essentia to put in the Therapeutic Mantle).
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
It's not that I only like T1 so much as I like interesting builds and functional builds. I had never heard of the Psycarnum trick, and it was interesting, and the Wizsassin is both interesting and totally functional, and more efficient than a large number of "standard" UMs. Ashardalon also kicked some serious ass, and your ToB builds very rarely disappoint. 0TBG fails on that second one, simply by comparison to the standard. Maybe it's because I've looked down this road myself, but this, in my (Not at all)humble opinion, runs into probelms in both categories.
The biggest problem is how insanely easy it is to shut down all that investment. Low opportunity cost or no, you sunk a huge investment into Stunning Fist, which is incredibly easy to just lol at, especially once you top level 11.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Umm, like half of the epic monsters in the SRD lack immunity to stunning, as do such pushover outsiders as the Pit Fiend, Balor, Solar, and Titan. Do you play PVM much? I'll admit that optimized artificer NPCs can take the God Hand, but really...
Originally posted by aelryinth:
and the number of ways you can get immunity to stunning is really quite low, and you're not going to run into them too often. Except for the undead and constructs, but that's like saying mages are weak because they can't target golems with Dominate Monster DC 32 saves and win.
==Aelryinth
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
Stunning is pretty high on the list of things to get immune to, and so is consequently not very useful at mid-level or higher. Yes, it'll let you roflstomp some weak and/or unintelligent things, but that kind of ability is frequently known as a "winmoar." If the opponent was one you could stunlock, it is quite probable that you could have just as easily beaten it with something that also works on more enemies, or just doesn't require the same investment.
But, hey, that's just coming from someone who doesn't use a metal weapon past level 6 and believes the Haversack is one of the best items in the game, so whatever.
Originally posted by draco1119:
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
I am somewhat curious, which orifice did you pull that idea out of?
Originally posted by draco1119:
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
What? Simply knowing how a wizard is properly played means I only think people should play wizards?
Originally posted by draco1119:
So, if you don't play them, what DO you usually play? I mean, seriously, it seems like the only advice you ever give is "Play Tier 1! Everything else is
!" It's... tiresome.
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
...You know, I cannot recall a single time I have said that.
As to what I normally play, ToB. Swordsages kick serious ass. Also, the occasional Warlock, Binder, or other pseudocaster. I normally avoid casters simply because they are inherently disruptive to the game, and the most important rule in D&D, or really any group game, is "Don't be a douche."
As usual for the showcase, these builds are intended to spur discussion and perhaps inspire a few people in the spirit of the old CO boards. They come from members of my gaming group - me, Radical Taoist, DisposableHero_, Andarious, Sionnis, and Seishi - and I'll always identify who wrote the build at the start, so do not assume I'm the guy behind all of them (because I'm not!).
Unless otherwise noted, showcase builds use 28 point-buy, and have their snapshots evaluated using fractional base attack / saves (because it simplifies the math). None of them actually rely on fractional to be built, though. The format I use showcases their progression at key levels rather than just presenting the build and showing off a few tricks at level 20; most of these are capable of being played 1-20 if you so choose.
With that out of the way, let's get started. This week, we have a Tashalatora Monk/Psychic Warrior build from RT (so you know who to blame) that hinges on a lot of synergy from a feat found in the Book of Exalted Deeds. Wait, where are you going? Don’t run away!
------------------
GOD HAND
What did the five fingers say to the face?
Required Books: Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Secrets of Sarlona, Complete Warrior, Complete Psionic, Planar Handbook, Book of Exalted Deeds (forgive us, it’s not that bad really)
Unearthed Arcana used: None!
Background: A Tashalatora Monk/Psychic Warrior already enjoys Wisdom to Will saves and manifesting. RT decided to push Wis synergy even further, with a focus on maxing out Stunning Fist DCs and using Intuitive Attack to replace Str with Wis for unarmed attack rolls. The result is an accurate, well-defended, and versatile tank that will have enemies cowering in fear of his epic backhand of justice.
The Basics
- Race: Buomman. An obscure pick from the Planar Handbook, they’re the only LA+0, Wis-bonus race RT could find, and their only real drawbacks are an inability to speak and a penalty to Cha. You don’t need Cha, and you can let your fists do the talking. (The Vow of Silence doesn’t interfere with your psionics at all, naturally, but it will prevent you from throwing out cheesy taunts.)
- Alignment: Lawful Good. Monk locks the former, Intuitive Attack locks the latter.
- Ability Scores: 10/12/14/8/20/6. This version of the build is a proof-of-concept run, and that’s the reason I’ve tubed everything else for Wis. If you want 13 Int for Combat Expertise and thus Improved Trip but DON’T want to reduce Wis, try 8/10/13/13/20/6. You cannot drop Con below 13; it’s a feat prereq. In most games, 10/14/13/13/18/6 or some such will do you fine. We’re just pushing what we can do with Wis here.
Skill Notes: Max out Concentration after you’ve met the prereqs for Tashalatora (Concentration 5, Autohypnosis 5). I’ll admit that the low Int in the initial stat array hurts – it really delays Tashalatora more than it would otherwise (it’s kind of hard to get the skill points for Autohypnosis on a monk (not a class skill) with an Intelligence penalty (stupid psywars only get 1 skill point per level)).
Basic Equipment: Ahem. Monk.
Magical Gear Goals: Ki Straps from the Magic Item Compendium can eke out an extra +2 to your Stunning Fist DC, which gets a bit more mileage here than in other builds. Other than that, you’re a Wis-SAD melee build, and should equip accordingly. You also have the full Tashalatora package, so some items which only work for monks can still show up here, as well as the usual selection of psychic warrior manifesting-support items. (You’ll probably want to dip into dorjes, Manifester weaponry, Torcs of Power Preservation, and similar stamina-enhancing items.)
The Build.
Build Stub: Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18
1 – Monk – (Flurry of blows, unarmed strike) (Stunning Fist, Ability Focus: Stunning Fist)
2 – Monk – (Evasion) (Monastic Training: Psychic Warrior)
*
[sblock] Yuck, prereq levels. But they’re kind of required. [/sblock]
3 – Psychic Warrior – (Intuitive Attack, Pain Touch) (Inertial Armor) *
[sblock] Yay, enormous boost to AC, accuracy, and stunning utility all in one level!
(If you're like me and you have a hard time following poorly enunciated lyrics, yes, that move really is called the Ball Buster. An apt analogue.)[/sblock]
4 – Psychic Warrior – (Extra Stunning) (Prevenom Weapon) *
[sblock] Some highly appreciated stamina and a deceptively useful power: unlike most powers (which only scale with more power points), Prevenom Weapon’s DC scales with your manifester level and runs off your primary manifesting stat. You know, that Wisdom score you’re boosting like hell?
If you’re using a higher Intelligence array, and bought Int 14 or more, you can get Tashalatora at this level. This isn’t assumed here though.[/sblock]
5 – Psychic Warrior – (Primal Fear) *
[sblock] The Complete Psionic nerf to this power makes it less useful, but it’s also a commonly ignored nerf (albeit not as commonly ignored as the needless Astral Construct nerf). If you haven’t seen the original power from Races of Eberron, it’s identical to the CPsi version – except no-save. In effect, this turned Primal Fear into a swift-action augment to any effect of yours that has a DC – such as your Stunning Fist / Pain Touch.[/sblock]
6 – Psychic Warrior – (Sun School) (Dimension Swap) *
[sblock] Sun School gets use out of teleports. We can teleport. It gets use out of flurries. We can flurry. It gets use out of stunning. We can stun! Actually, Blinding Glare of Noon is the least useful maneuver here, as with Pain Touch, we don’t WANT or need to stun in consecutive rounds. But the other two maneuvers are great. [/sblock]
7 – Psychic Warrior – (Tashalatora) (Strength of my Enemy) *
[sblock] A HUGE bump in our unarmed damage and general threat level occurs here. Both the feat and power are awesome and have been covered at length both previously in this showcase and elsewhere. Sadly, we had to delay Tashalatora because of its skill reqs. (Why is autohypnosis not a monk class skill? Or for that matter, why aren’t its functions rolled into Concentration?) [/sblock]
8 – Psychic Warrior – (Psionic Lion’s Charge) *
[sblock] Hey, did I mention that we flurry and have Sun School?
As a side note, the augment to this power is weirdly worded. It’s pretty obvious what it should be doing - +1 damage on each charge attack per augmented point – but the literal way it’s worded shows that it scales geometrically. Didn’t really notice that before…
[/sblock]
9 – Psychic Warrior – (Shape Soulmeld: Therapeutic Mantle) (Vampiric Weapon) *
[sblock] This is the level where we more or less stop worrying about our hit points in combat too much; Vampiric Weapon on our fists heals us half our (full monk progression) unarmed strike damage + 3 hit points with every hit. The monk progression – rightly – gets a lot of flak for rolling huge dice but not being very useful with Power Attack; Vampiric Weapon doesn’t care about Power Attack but does care about the size of those damage dice.[/sblock]
10 – Psychic Warrior – (Psycarnum Infusion) (Greater Concealing Amorpha) *
[sblock] Godlike Wis to AC gives a decent touch AC to begin with. We can shore up the non-touch AC over long spans of time with Inertial Armor, but if we need to get the touch even higher, why not stack up a miss chance?
At the moment your only incarnum receptacle is Therapeutic Mantle, which doesn’t benefit all that much from Psycarnum Infusion, but give it two more levels and you’ll see. [/sblock]
11 – Psychic Warrior – (Danger Sense) *
[sblock] A true kung fu master is never caught off guard. This power gives us Uncanny Dodge with an augment, which prevents ambushing and flanking. (Its basic effect is actually kind of weaksauce.)
If this is less of an issue for you, the psywar list has a few other thematically similar powers to swap in. Detect Hostile Intent is a favorite of mine, in part because it’s kind of catchall. [/sblock]
12 – Psychic Warrior – (Sapphire Fist) (Dimension Door) *
[sblock] This is the real reason we got Psycarnum Infusion; use it to boost those DCs. Do NOT invest the point of essentia you get in this feat; it goes to the Mantle to boost Vampiric Weapon more.
And since Dimension Swap probably isn’t cutting it by now, let’s get a better teleportation power. Unlike Primal Fear, Dimension Door actually got more useful in Complete Psionic, with (mechanically interesting but never used outside of that book) negative augments to make the power more efficient. Psychic warriors really need the help with stamina anyway.[/sblock]
13 – Psychic Warrior – (Psionic Meditation) (Steadfast Perception)*
[sblock]A true kung fu master holds no delusions.[/sblock]
14 – Psychic Warrior – (Expansion) *
[sblock] You can probably move this power earlier, where it’ll have a slightly bigger bang, but then again, early on, your medium base attack bonus and Intuitive Attack will actually backfire with Expansion (the size increase comes with an attack penalty, usually compensated for by an increased Strength, but you’re not using Strength for accuracy).[/sblock]
15 – Psychic Warrior – (Improved Essentia Capacity) (Perfect Riposte)
*
[sblock] Perfect Riposte will give you AoOs against enemies who attack you in melee and miss. You have crazy Wis to AC, Inertial Armor, and Greater Concealing Amorpha. They will miss you. Frequently. [/sblock]
16 – Psychic Warrior – (Expanded Knowledge) (Greater Stomp, Telekinetic Maneuver) *
[sblock] The stuff we do to make up for not having Improved Trip… Just check with your DM if it will always use Intelligence for the ability modifier or if it will switch to your key ability modifier. If it’s the latter, you’re going to be kind of boss.
Interestingly, while this power does its own substitutions for base attack and Strength modifier on its maneuvers, it does not replace your size modifier. Go ahead and use Expansion to get a bigger boost on your telekinetic checks! [/sblock]
17 – Psychic Warrior – (Power Weapon) *
[sblock]Mostly a counter to DR; if you want to hit incorporeal creatures, you get a better deal from a Ghost Shroud out of the MIC.[/sblock]
18 – Psychic Warrior – (Expanded Knowledge) (Inconstant Location, Schism) *
[sblock] In the tradition of getting a better teleportation power every 6 levels, time for the fantastic Inconstant Location. This power combines pretty nicely with Sun School as well. Schism lets us TK trip without using our own actions, and can recover focus for us as well. [/sblock]
19 – Psychic Warrior – (Snap Kick) (Form of Doom) *
[sblock] I remind you that we have Psionic Lion’s Charge and Expansion, both of which combine quite nicely with both of these effects. I’m quite fond of Form of Doom, although it’s kind of high leveled for the bang you get (particularly on a Tash build, which is slightly delayed on power access). [/sblock]
20 – Psychic Warrior – (Dispelling Buffer) *
[sblock]Kind of a necessary power for any buffer. [/sblock]
Psionic powers known:
[sblock]By power level:
- Inertial Armor, Prevenom Weapon, Primal Fear, Expansion, Power Weapon
- Dimension Swap, Strength of my Enemy, Psionic Lion's Charge
- Vampiric Weapon, Greater Concealing Amorpha, Danger Sense
- Dimension Door, Steadfast Perception, Telekinetic Maneuver
- Greater Stomp, Perfect Riposte, Schism
- Inconstant Location, Form of Doom, Dispelling Buffer
[/sblock]
Snapshot: Strap on your +6 Wisdom, Constitution, and Dexterity boosters, and Tome up your Wisdom by 5. With no other equipment, we’re looking at 193 HP, +15 base attack (melee +33 with Greater Magic Weapon, with full Monk Flurry and unarmed damage), and saves of 19/13/22. Psionically you’ve got ML 18 and 220 power points, again with no other equipment to improve this stamina. Additionally, you’re looking at 9 Stunning Fist / Pain Touch uses per day, with a DC of 40 without the ki straps (and you can nerf enemy saves somewhat using Prevenom and/or Primal Fear). Defensively, with no equipment besides what’s mentioned here, you’re looking at around 31 base AC and touch AC before Inertial Armor; a pretty basic equipment loadout can easily get that to around 45 or so, and that’s before your buffs kick in.
Overall Strengths: Very powerful baseline AC and enough effects designed to bypass monk-style MAD (Tashalatora, Psywar manifesting, Intuitive Attack, Vampiric Weapon/Therapeutic Mantle), combined with potent stun/nausea DCs and effects that synergize with the “free” monk advancement (again with the Vampiric Weapon, but also Expansion, Snap Kick, Form of Doom, Psionic Lion’s Charge, and Strength of My Enemy) and the well-known teleport/Sun School effects. This sidelines the usual arms race connected to Power Attack (it won’t exceed Power Attack, but that’s not its primary role) and allows you to concentrate on effects that all support unarmed combat. You are surprisingly good at dealing ability damage thanks to Prevenom Weapon and Strength of My Enemy flurries. Finally, Expansion, Schism, and Telekinetic Maneuver allow you to exhibit a touch of action control and tactical combat on the side, again bringing that unarmed damage to bear in a way that a regular ol’ monk simply can’t even attempt (and even swordsages have trouble with – telekinesis has a much longer range than any martial maneuver).
Overall Weaknesses: As you’re not allowed to speak per se, try to avoid enemies smart enough to trigger that in combat by asking for your favourite drink. This also prevents you from throwing out cheesy pre-smackdown taunts – but considering this build’s namesake features a Capcom script, this is probably better dialogue than the original. Similarly, without some serious work on your equipment, you’ll have a problem with your psionic stamina, as with most psychic warrior builds (which should go without mentioning at this point). Your daily stuns are kind of low too (that’s one of the bigger things that Tashalatora doesn’t stack).
Variants: Shuffle the ability scores for more Int and Improved Trip (replace the Expanded Knowledge feats). Alternatively, grab the feats Shape Soulmeld: Worg Pelt and Split Chakra: Hands, and then find a way to open your hands chakra (there’s not a lot of room on your powers known list for Psionic Open Chakra, but it’s available via dorje). Mix with the Bite of the Wolf power and you can pick up a Supertrip ability without the need to boost your Intelligence. You won’t be able to take both the Worg Pelt and the Therapeutic Mantle, though. Finally, an Extra Stunning or two would allow more liberal use of your specialty takedown strikes.
There you have it. Go ahead and dragon-kick your enemies into the milky way.
Next week on the showcase: We're putting up the [AR] 0 Buff Time Gish, which won a vote during an earlier cycle but was skipped over. We've got about four writeups almost ready; once the buffer finalizes you'll be able to vote on them.
Originally posted by Seeron:
If I remember correctly, the lesser aasimar had a WIS bonus too
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
Hmm...this is one of my less favorite builds on the showcase. It's not a bad one by any means but it seems a little vanilla. The builds trick is basically just stapling a few feats that boost stunning fist into a normal Tash build.
Props on using Buomman though. I hardly ever see that race used. You may also want to add dragonborn. This gets rid of the Buommans racial vow of silence. -2 Dex though.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
I find the irony in godhand being based off corny kung fu movies and not being capable to talk an absolute riot! With that being said I'm interested in the build from a pc perspective because it is in general a very vanilla build with a lot of power that any dm would probably allow into a game strictly based off the merit that it is decently plain. Many builds with this one's power I find are shutdown by dms who want to add large amount of flavour and rp into a game. In this case low classes and large cohesivness+simple flavour turn out to be beneficial. I didn't like the build atfirst (more because abomidable throwman sounded sweet) but I think I like it better then T3 because I don't particularily like ardent and how rigid it feels. Psy warrior has more niche powers and open abilities for different character aspects which I prefer.
Originally posted by Count_Von_CoC:
I realize that this doesn't matter at all with the original ability load-out, but why not just take PsyWar at level 1 in order to take Tashalatora at level 3?
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Ah, forgot about that one. Where can you find it?
Intuitive Attack is the other big part of the trick. I'd never seen anyone go Wis SAD before. Dex SAD yes, Str SAD yes, Con SAD yes, ditto the other mental scores. Heck, you can see several in the showcase. But Wis SAD outside of Druids?
Buomman is an underrated race for sure, especially in a party that has access to mindlink or telepathic bond (telepathy doesn't violate the racial vow of silence).
Oh, we tried. But there's only one other feat we can take at 1st level in that case (Shape Soulmeld: Vampiric Weapon), which means our PsyWar 1 bonus feat is wasted on something outside of this feat progression. Now, if you make room for Int 13 and thus Improved Trip, taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at level 1 and then shuffling around other stuff is a perfectly good option - but if you do that, you can get Tashalatora at level 3 anyways. It's not hard to get that feat with enough Int, but hey, don't think, feel.
It doesn't matter too much as Tashalatora doesn't give us an enormous boost until later. Taking it at 3 instead of at 7only gives us 3 more levels of 1d8 damage unarmed strike (instead of 1d6) and 2 more levels of +1 to AC. There's actually no delay in the flurry progression at all - we pick up Tashalatora EXACTLY when a flurry penalty reduction occurs.
Originally posted by StevenO:
It is a little section in toward the back of the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms. Basically the 3.5 update to the setting. In my opinion the "lesser" races in that book can be pretty sick.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
StevenO your new avatar picture is kinda creepy
Originally posted by StevenO:
The other one was getting to be old so I managed this one myself one dark, cold winter night with only a pair of lightsabers as illumination.StevenO your new avatar picture is kinda creepy
Odd, I'm now had more people comment on that here then when I changed my FB profile picture to it and there you can even see more of the details.
Originally posted by Tempest_Stormwind:
I agree completely here. RT, the lesser aasimar is identical to the stock aasimar, except Humanoid type and LA+0. I would think that some of their other goodies - not the least of which is that it's all bonus with no drawback - would warrant more of the gap between +0 and +1 than just the benefits from the Outsider type (which include martial weapon proficiency). Especially given how they usually never have racial hit dice in the first place.
(My guess is that people on FB know your face from more than a forum avatar (be it in person or a larger gallery). I recall switching my avatar around here and people forgot it was me for a while. As if there are that many other long-winded people whose punctuation preferences include prolific parentheses.)
Originally posted by Seeron:
aasimar is in the MM and the rules for lesser versions are in PGtF p. 190. its effectvly replacing the LA with humanoid(planetouched) type.
And cause you onlyight with unarmed strike and nat atks, why not go anthromorphic animal?
Originally posted by Seeron:
i like the idea if a kungfu bat or toad
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Anthropormorphic is 3E which they try to avoid whenever possible plus those races are a little cheesy, the major consensus seems to be they are kind of broken
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Are there any +Wis LA 0 HD 0 anthro animals? If you're an Intuitive Attack Psywar, you don't really need natural attacks from your race. Growing natural attacks are kind of a psywar thing.
Originally posted by Seeron:
i am away from books right now. but i think all of the lower ones are la 0 and hd 0. and +WIS is on all anyway. but you made a point frost.fire
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
"Intuitive Attack is the other big part of the trick. I'd never seen anyone go Wis SAD before. Dex SAD yes, Str SAD yes, Con SAD yes, ditto the other mental scores. Heck, you can see several in the showcase. But Wis SAD outside of Druids?"
True. It's just that when I look at this build compared to...say...Flip the Bird, it sort of pales.
Also:
"Sir Wisdom the SAD
Elan Paladin 4/Sanctified Mind 1/War Mind 5/Sanctified Mind 2-6
A Paladin using the Serenity feat (Dragon Magazine, also on Crystalkeep) uses Wis instead of Cha for all of his class abilities. So now your Wis improves all of your Saves (and it effectively doubles up on your Will Save), and you can use it for Smite (bonus to hit) and Turn Undead uses (various Divine feats).
Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. Unlike most other classes, you can enter it at ECL 5. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.
War Mind is a nifty PrC. His best class feature is Sweeping Strike, which can be abused all kinds of ways with Attack of Opportunity combos. But he also gets Wis based Psychic Warrior power progression. It's relatively fast progression, too. At ECL 15, you essentially have the same powers as a 15th level Psychic Warrior.
Intuitive Attack (Book of Exalted Deeds) which allows you to use your Wis bonus for your To-Hit bonus with simple or natural weapons.
Enhanced Elan Resilience (Complete Psionic) improves your Elan ability to spend your Power Points (based on Wis) to negate damage to 4 points per power point spent. You can also burn 1 point to get +4 to your Saves for 1 round. Though you need to be careful about this, as both are an Immediate Action, and thus can be done once per round. Alternatively or in addition, you can also get temporary hit points with the Vigor power, and/or heal with Hostile Empathic Transfer when you need to. And/or you can set up the standard Claws of the Beast + Claws of the Vampire + Expansion combo. Just be mindful that you have very limited power points (though you're helped out by bonus power points from a high Wis).
And Mage Slayer feats have no effect on caster levels, as the transparency rules have no effect on feats (otherwise a Psychic Warrior could take Practiced Caster and metamagic feats, which they can't). So casters have a lot to fear from you.
Buy a Monk's Belt, and you get Wis to AC (including Touch AC). Improve both AC's even higher by using the Shield and Inertial Armor powers. And since you're not wearing armor, you can buy a Ring of Evasion, just to be extra cautious.
To top it off, take a look at the Travel Devotion (Complete Champion) to get free movement every turn, so that you can make a full attack every round. (Not that you need it. You have Hustle. But it's nice to be thorough).
Put it all together, and you get a PC who has Wis based Turn Undead, Saves, To-Hit, AC, and (essentially) hit points, with full BAB, 15th level Psychic Warrior abilities, plenty of divine and psionic options, and numerous useful class abilities."
From:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
EDIT: AAARRRRGGGHHH!! Screw it I don't need quotes anyways!
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Its not a big deal, they are still a valid race option I just feel they tend to shy away from things like that, I actually was debating doing a whole anthropomorphic campaign at one point
Originally posted by Slagger_the_Chuul:
The trouble with the anthropomorphic animals is that the ones with a Wisdom bonus at LA +0 (and 0 racial HD) have penalties on Strength and a Small size that make them less than ideal on the damage side of things, and generally also suffer a penalty to movement speed. They could perform capably on other fronts, but they're downsides absent from the buomman.
The same sort of effect applies to the jermlaine (who is even smaller and weaker).
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Need a way btw blah to get wis to damage unless I missed something
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
If there's a way to add Wis to damage I don' know of it. The God Hand isn't a hit point damage build so much, though. He's awesome at locking people in place, being hard to kill, and doing ability damage. Hard to kill, hard to evade, and dangerous enough that the enemy can't afford to ignore him.
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
Off the top of my head the only way I know to get Wis to damage is Swordsage, and that's only with X School Maneuvers.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
I believe swordsage can add wis to damage with certain maneuvers
Originally posted by frost.fire:
Oh damn andarious beat me to it
Originally posted by Andarious-Rosethorn:
I believe I Swordsaged you on that one.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Oh derp - one of my swordsage builds already does that.
Originally posted by frost.fire:
By does that do you mean they are wisdom SAD
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Yep, with Intuitive Attack, Wis to AC, and a ton of Wis-based save DC abilities.
Originally posted by 123456789blaaa:
What do you think of Sir Wisdom the SAD?
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Fairly solid. I am skeptical about the effectiveness of elan resilience, even with that feat; it's less efficient than Vigor and even an SAD War Mind will not have power points to spare, but otherwise it does what it's meant to do.
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
I expected I a bit more from RT. Stunning Fist is lame, to say the least, and focusing on it? I understand the desire to make crap good, but shutting down all that inventment is easier than a two-cent hooker.
Sorry, man, but I'm really disappointed.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
*shrugs* It's a matter of opportunity cost; this build has feats to spare and is hard Wisdom SAD. But I've noticed that you're not a fan of the Tier 3 or even low Tier 2 stuff (especially given your comments on the 0BTG). If you're rolling Tier 1? You can always drop EK: Telekinetic Maneuver and Snap Kick for Azure Talent and Midnight Augmentation. That gives up tripping but lets you play at the Psycarnum Warrior's trick (and even gives you two more essentia to put in the Therapeutic Mantle).
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
It's not that I only like T1 so much as I like interesting builds and functional builds. I had never heard of the Psycarnum trick, and it was interesting, and the Wizsassin is both interesting and totally functional, and more efficient than a large number of "standard" UMs. Ashardalon also kicked some serious ass, and your ToB builds very rarely disappoint. 0TBG fails on that second one, simply by comparison to the standard. Maybe it's because I've looked down this road myself, but this, in my (Not at all)humble opinion, runs into probelms in both categories.
The biggest problem is how insanely easy it is to shut down all that investment. Low opportunity cost or no, you sunk a huge investment into Stunning Fist, which is incredibly easy to just lol at, especially once you top level 11.
Originally posted by radicaltaoist:
Umm, like half of the epic monsters in the SRD lack immunity to stunning, as do such pushover outsiders as the Pit Fiend, Balor, Solar, and Titan. Do you play PVM much? I'll admit that optimized artificer NPCs can take the God Hand, but really...
Originally posted by aelryinth:
and the number of ways you can get immunity to stunning is really quite low, and you're not going to run into them too often. Except for the undead and constructs, but that's like saying mages are weak because they can't target golems with Dominate Monster DC 32 saves and win.
==Aelryinth
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
A large number of high-level monsters are immune, including Solars and, IIRC, Titans, due to native spellcasting or having even tiny amounts of WBL.
Stunning is pretty high on the list of things to get immune to, and so is consequently not very useful at mid-level or higher. Yes, it'll let you roflstomp some weak and/or unintelligent things, but that kind of ability is frequently known as a "winmoar." If the opponent was one you could stunlock, it is quite probable that you could have just as easily beaten it with something that also works on more enemies, or just doesn't require the same investment.
But, hey, that's just coming from someone who doesn't use a metal weapon past level 6 and believes the Haversack is one of the best items in the game, so whatever.
Originally posted by draco1119:
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
No, not really. I normally don't play wizards.
I am somewhat curious, which orifice did you pull that idea out of?
Originally posted by draco1119:
Your fingers. That's the impression that you constantly give. Let's see... what was the line in the other thread? "Highly efficient + slots = lulz"?No, not really. I normally don't play wizards.
I am somewhat curious, which orifice did you pull that idea out of?
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
What? Simply knowing how a wizard is properly played means I only think people should play wizards?
Originally posted by draco1119:
No, I'm juat too lazy to find every one of your posts that give the impression of "Why would you play this crap?! Wizards are teh u8er!!1!"What? Simply knowing how a wizard is properly played means I only think people should play wizards?
So, if you don't play them, what DO you usually play? I mean, seriously, it seems like the only advice you ever give is "Play Tier 1! Everything else is
Originally posted by EruditeApe:
...You know, I cannot recall a single time I have said that.
As to what I normally play, ToB. Swordsages kick serious ass. Also, the occasional Warlock, Binder, or other pseudocaster. I normally avoid casters simply because they are inherently disruptive to the game, and the most important rule in D&D, or really any group game, is "Don't be a douche."
