D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Crimson Longinus]

I am not dismissing the current framework.

I just don't trust WOTC to not screw it up due to both their history with 3e, the fear of 4e, and the over-permissive spell mechanics of 5e magic.

Then it is rather pointless to hope that the design anything you like. They will just screw it up.

 

[Minigiant]

Then it is rather pointless to hope that the design anything you like. They will just screw it up.

You are conflating 2 things.

I trust them to make the class.

The problem is that They already broke the spell based Psion with the feats and the base way spells are handled (spellcaster levels and slots stack, skills prepared stack, spells can be upcasted).

The Spell based Psion is already breaks the Wizard and Cleric. The AM Sorcerer is only fair because the base Sorcerer sucks.

So a spell Psion is gonna come in broken and THEN you have to hope they don't simply share psionic spells on other classes spell lists.

If psionic powers aren't spells, those problems literally can't arise.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You are conflating 2 things.

I trust them to make the class.

Why?

The problem is that They already broke the spell based Psion with the feats and the base way spells are handled (spellcaster levels and slots stack, skills prepared stack, spells can be upcasted).

The Spell based Psion is already breaks the Wizard and Cleric. The AM Sorcerer is only fair because the base Sorcerer sucks.

What?

So a spell Psion is gonna come in broken and THEN you have to hope they don't simply share psionic spells on other classes spell lists.

If psionic powers aren't spells, those problems literally can't arise.

It seems really bizarre to demand them to design a completely separate parallel magic system so that the psionic spells can't be given to wizard. There is way easier way to achieve this: not giving those psionic spells to the wizard.

 

[Minigiant]

What?

You how Coffelocks, Sorcladins, and Hexladins work?

Well the same will happen with Int based Spell using Psions and Wizards.

Except worse because the Psion is full caster with unique cantrips and level 1 spells.

The 5e spell system is VERY generous to casters of the same prime attribute.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You how Coffelocks, Sorcladins, and Hexladins work?

Well the same will happen with Int based Spell using Psions and Wizards.

Except worse because the Psion is full caster with unique cantrips and level 1 spells.

The 5e spell system is VERY generous to casters of the same prime attribute.

So if Coffelocks, Sorcladins, and Hexladins are a problem, according to your logic the solution would be to have every class to use a separate parallel magic system?

Or alternatively one could just check if the multiclassing rules could use some additional restrictions. (Also multiclassing is optional anyway, so the easiest solution is to simply not allow it. I don't.)

This simply seems like an insanely complicated way for solving a simple problem.

(EDIT: And I don't agree that the Psion should be Int based, but that's another matter.)

 

[glass]

The 3e Psion uses spell slots to determine spell slot level, and spends spell points to cast a spell slot.

No, it does not. 3e psionics have nothing whatever to do with spell slots. Why would you claim that they do?

Technically, new mechanics that have never existed are not part of the D&D tradition.

Obviously, the specifics of a 5e adaptation of 2e or 3e psionics would be "new" mechanics in a sense, but hardly without precedent. And before you appeal to tradition, you might want to bear in mind that how spell slots work for wizard, clerics, etc (not being vancian ) is new to 5e as far as D&D proper is concerned (it previously cropped up in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearther/Evolved and PF1).

_
glass.

 

[Yaarel]

Psionics is an important tradition in D&D since its origins almost 40 years ago.

A central part of this tradition is still missing from D&D. There are psionic fans waiting for a Psion.

If the goal is to have weird mechanics, please do it in a different power source, preferably one that doesnt already have a D&D tradition.

 

[Yaarel]

No, it does not. 3e psionics have nothing whatever to do with spell slots. Why would you claim that they do?

A 3e Wizard can use spell points to cast a spell slot. A 3e Psion can too.

The spell lists of the 3e Wizard and the 3e Psion are nonidentical but mostly share the same spells.

Obviously, the specifics of a 5e adaptation of 2e or 3e psionics would be "new" mechanics in a sense, but hardly without precedent. And before you appeal to tradition, you might want to bear in mind that how spell slots work for wizard, clerics, etc (not being vancian)is new to 5e.

Spontaneous spell casting is new for the 5e Wizard, but is normal for the 3e Psion.

 

[Minigiant]

So if Coffelocks, Sorcladins, and Hexladins are a problem, according to your logic the solution would be to have every class to use a separate parallel magic system

Not every class.

Just the ones the overlapped with the most biased and favorite class in the history of the game.

If the designers don't say they are wary of the overall in implementation of a spell using psion, they WILL accidentally break the wizard. And maybe the cleric.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Not every class.

Just the ones the overlapped with the most biased and favorite class in the history of the game.

If the designers don't say they are wary of the overall in implementation of a spell using psion, they WILL accidentally break the wizard. And maybe the cleric.

Sorry, but this is completely nonsensical. If the designers are cognisant of the issue, they can easily avoid it even with a spell using Psion, and if they aren't, then they will not be motivated by this line of reasoning for creating a parallel mechanic to begin with.