D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Yaarel]

Google scholaring, it looks like in some cultures there is the connection, but the two anthropology dictionaries I cited above seem to be against it being the general meaning. :::shrugs:::

Do you have a favorite general anthropology text/article/dictionary that defines it with using spirits as a major or required thing for sorcery in general? (Only one I found that was definitely the definition you've heard was a web-page at Oregon State).

In any case... random googling got me away from some work.

Just going through google scholar, Bleyenberg & Stroeken (2017) - Anthropology and Medicine - discuss how a rash is viewed in Tanzania: "pese is Bembe sorcery [using a powder], now found in Kigoma, while kisigo is a disagreement between a local bad spirit and one's ancestral protective ancestor". In one area the rash is viewed as the first, it is viewed as the second in another, and the two accounts have been merged in some areas with the sorcerer sending the kisigo spirit.

Bratrud (2021) book chapter about Melanesia have some sorcery involving sprits and some not, they "deliberately manipulate spirits and use poisonous plants and toxics to cause sickness, death and misfortune to those who frustrate them." He notes that "As argued by John Himugu (2015), it is therefore important to have a clear understanding of the particular cultural context of the sorcery notion in question." Himugu notes three distinct things in the beliefs of the Huli of New Guinea are called sorcery in English: "poisons (tomia), spells (gamugamu) or spirts (dama) for invoking spiritual powers and forces." The use of dama are "the most dangerous form of sorcery" for them.

Looking up the case of Kuru in the Fore society, it looks like there were believed to be two types of illnesses - those caused by other humans (using rituals done by sorcerers using different materials) and those caused by nature spirits (not resulting from sorcerers) - Linderbaum, 1971 - there is no mention of the former rituals using separate spirits.

I see the more recent examples are emphasizing the meaning of sorcery to mean black magic, "sickness, death, and misfortune", by any means, whether by employing spirits or not.

The original meaning is to harm by means of a spirit, normally a harmful or evil spirit. It extends to various kinds of spirits and not necessarily harmful effects. However, it looks like in these other cultures the sense of doing harm is the more useful angle.

 

[Cadence]

I see the more recent examples are emphasizing the meaning of sorcery to mean black magic, "sickness, death, and misfortune", by any means, whether by employing spirits or not.

The original meaning is to harm by means of a spirit, normally a harmful or evil spirit. It extends to various kinds of spirits and not necessarily harmful effects. However, it looks like in these other cultures the sense of doing harm is the more useful angle.

Thank you for the back and forth and prompting me to go google some interesting stuff!

 

[Yaarel]

My bar is higher than yours. You claimed a dichotomy. My option of both sets my bar higher than your low one.

There's a section of the community that doesn't like hit points or armor class, too. If you want the section of the community who is not okay with adding new ideas or concepts as an impediment, you need to show that it's as large or larger than the section that wants it. Or at the very least a very sizable minority.

I point you to the artificer. Clearly they aren't shying away from classes with new elements.

WotC stopped having the community choose a while ago. WotC is the only choice that matters right now, and they have shown a willingness to make new classes, design new psionic mechanics, and work to put out good stuff.

And you need to show that the section of the community you are talking about is as sizable as you are claiming.

Heh, it seems to me, new mechanics are fine ... as long as it isnt for the Psion class.

Psionic die for Psi Warrior? Whatever.

"Mystic" Psion class mechanical weirdness? Shut down.

But what if there are two classes, both the Psion and the Mystic? I think it will work. Win-win. The Psion will have normal traditional mechanics for its fans (including me), and the Mystic will be free from the traditional baggage to truly do something new.

 

[Yaarel]

Thank you for the back and forth and prompting me to go google some interesting stuff!

Check out this link, to my post in an other thread. While explaining what animism is (and why it isnt polytheism), I mention David Abram. He uses the term "sorcerer" for certain cultures in Asia, that preserve an animistic substratum.

In this context, the "sorcerer" is a shaman-like figure who maintains relationships with animistic beings, imprecisely understood as "nature spirits". Heh, it took him a long time to realize that these "spirits" arent spirits. They are actually physical objects, like a colony of ants, a river, etcetera. His work opened the eyes of many Westerners. Animism is only about this physical world ... there is nowhere else. That is the significance of reincarnation in these cultures: things change shapes (breath into wind, corpse into soil), but there is nowhere else to go.

Anyway, these "sorcerers" spend most of their time mediating conflicts between humans and other beings, and thereby healing the sick. But the "sorcerer" intentionally emphasize their black magic and sometimes affirm rumors that they themselves are evil and dangerous, mainly to keep people away, so that only the truly desperate would come to the sorcerer for help.

Heh, in my own words, the demonization of these shamans is sometimes welcomed by the shaman for the sake of crowd control to avoid getting overworked.

 

[MoonSong]

@Yaarel This is very interesting. Too bad Skipp Williams wasn't a trained anthropologist... But it is cool stuff.

 

[Yaarel]

@MoonSong

In 5e, the body of the Sorcerer is artificially infused with magic. For example, the Draconic Sorcerer gets the magic from a dragon by choice, intentionally. But sometimes an ancestor made the choice.

From the Players Handbook, the Sorcerer is imbued with the bodily magical nature, artificially.

"The most important question to consider when creating your Sorcerer, is the origin of your power. ... Did some extraordinary event leave you blessed with inherent magic?"

So, it might me Nightcrawler born like that, or it might be like Spiderman bitten by a radioactive spider.

The Draconic Bloodline is "draconic magic that is mingled with your blood OR that of your ancestors". You might be born with it. But you can also ask a dragon to infuse your blood with its magic. This is when a Warlock pact and a Sorcerer bloodline become the same thing. Maybe your ancestor "made a bargain with a dragon" with the magical infusion being "the result of a pact". A Pact!

Likewise the Wild Magic never uses the term "bloodline". This magic infuses the character artificially too. "You might have endured exposure ... to raw magic. ... Perhaps you were blessed by a ... fey ... or marked by a demon." A Pact! Or else the magical infusion is a one-time random and inexplicable event.

In 5e, the Sorcerer magic is artificial, and is normally the result of choosing the transformation, as part of a pact. But 5e notes it might be an ancestor who made this choice during a pact with a dragon.

You can decide a unique origin for your Sorcerer character. But the idea is the body has been magically transformed.

 

[MoonSong]

@Yaarel I'll answer that when I have my books back. In a few days.

 

[Shardstone]

Stop trying to ruin the Psion class.

Go ruin the Mystic class with broken experimental fiddly mechanics.

You telling people they're going to ruin another class/idea and that it will always be broken literally only hinders conversation, man. Stop telling us that we're just going to make some broken trash stuff. Like, what's up? How can we even have a conversation if you just keep saying this stuff?

 

[SkidAce]

I remembered that 1st edition psionc rules were addon to character classes. And I liked that (no special classes need to be created/homebrewed etc).

So I am re-reading them, and you know, I could almost use them as is.

Stats gave you your psionic str points, %dice to see how many disciplines you knew (gained as you leveled in your class) and some abilities scaled based on character level.

I am up to Body Weaponry, and so far I see nothing that would make it not work.

Hmmmm.

 

[SkidAce]

If people got that, this site would be a lot shorter.

We would have better discussions and less debate.