D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[SkidAce]

Regarding Nordic magic, including Norse runic magic, the magic is explicitly done by the power of the mind - according to the reallife Nordic cultures.

A strong mind can cause dramatic effects. But every mind manifests influence. Training magic is about focusing ones mind, visualizing intention, inducing trances, imbuing objects with ones own mindfulness, and is sometimes about preventing accidental magical effects when the mind wanders randomly.

Nordic magic translates into D&D as psionic.

Typically, most animistic traditions are psionic, where any object of nature is a mind that inherently manifests influence.

This is a prehistoric worldview about how minds and reality work.

Psionics has nothing to with "modern science".

I would not agree, there are plenty of examples of stories where the abilities are scientific based.

 

[James Gasik]

Or at the same time, something science cannot truly explain, even if it is observable.

 

[James Gasik]

So thinking about it, my favorite psionic character is actually fairly weak- Gil the Arm, from Larry Niven's Known Space stories. Gil was an asteroid miner who lost his arm in an accident. But he developed phantom limb syndrome, where he was sure his arm was still there- and then, to his surprise, found he has a telekinetic limb, with the same reach and fine motor control as his old arm and hand, but very weak. After much practice, he can eventually lift a pen.

He returned to Earth and got a cloned arm, but it didn't affect his wild talent, and he eventually went to work for ARM (a sort of future FBI/Homeland Security organization). For having such a weak ability, he gets a lot done with it.

I really like the idea of psionic wild talents, though they were anything but balanced in 1e/2e, and they were really weak to the point of not being worth discussing in 4e's Dark Sun. I know there are Feats now that can grant psychic abilities, but it might be interesting to expand on this notion.

I don't like that they are Feats though. You get so few of them, and I get the feeling a lot of players wouldn't take them if they weren't free (which at least one probably would be in a Dark Sun campaign setting). But at the same time, there's not a heck of a lot you can give up in 5e for an alternate ability.

I wonder how trading Hit Dice for power would work? I'm sure my play experience is unique, but I've rarely had to spend Hit Dice to regain hit points, so I think that might be a worthwhile tradeoff, but I'm not sure.

 

[Maxperson]

So thinking about it, my favorite psionic character is actually fairly weak- Gil the Arm, from Larry Niven's Known Space stories. Gil was an asteroid miner who lost his arm in an accident. But he developed phantom limb syndrome, where he was sure his arm was still there- and then, to his surprise, found he has a telekinetic limb, with the same reach and fine motor control as his old arm and hand, but very weak. After much practice, he can eventually lift a pen.

He returned to Earth and got a cloned arm, but it didn't affect his wild talent, and he eventually went to work for ARM (a sort of future FBI/Homeland Security organization). For having such a weak ability, he gets a lot done with it.

I really like the idea of psionic wild talents, though they were anything but balanced in 1e/2e, and they were really weak to the point of not being worth discussing in 4e's Dark Sun. I know there are Feats now that can grant psychic abilities, but it might be interesting to expand on this notion.

I don't like that they are Feats though. You get so few of them, and I get the feeling a lot of players wouldn't take them if they weren't free (which at least one probably would be in a Dark Sun campaign setting). But at the same time, there's not a heck of a lot you can give up in 5e for an alternate ability.

I wonder how trading Hit Dice for power would work? I'm sure my play experience is unique, but I've rarely had to spend Hit Dice to regain hit points, so I think that might be a worthwhile tradeoff, but I'm not sure.

My favorite book psions are the Deryni.

 

[James Gasik]

My favorite book psions are the Deryni.

Nice! Thinking about it, maybe what should separate Wizards and Psions is a narrower focus. Instead of letting them have a grab bag of psychic powers, force them to really specialize in one Discipline.

So you can have your Spacing Guild who are masters of Psychoportation, your Bene Gesserit who have powers that certainly seem like mentalism (even if, in universe, we're told they aren't), Seers who can see distant events or even pierce the veil of the future, etc..

That's a mechanical difference I can get behind.

 

[Shardstone]

Nice! Thinking about it, maybe what should separate Wizards and Psions is a narrower focus. Instead of letting them have a grab bag of psychic powers, force them to really specialize in one Discipline.

So you can have your Spacing Guild who are masters of Psychoportation, your Bene Gesserit who have powers that certainly seem like mentalism (even if, in universe, we're told they aren't), Seers who can see distant events or even pierce the veil of the future, etc..

That's a mechanical difference I can get behind.

This is exactly it!! The very thing I would love to see a Psion, using dune touchstones to convey the idea of specialization and how much you can do with your core ability ideas.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I could live with a spelled psion but even if we only had three subclasses of the bat it would need a lot of exclusive spells to get the job done.
given the sorcerer is dnd word for genetic magic what thematics can we go for psion as there are a couple left but few are as ain't in media as genetic or workhard magic?

also, I suggest the psion be built off the cleric chassis as it would let it compete less with the wizard and clerics are fairly secure in role and fuction.

 

[James Gasik]

I can see d8 Hit Die, but maybe weaker weapon and armor proficiencies, like, Simple Weapons and Light Armor.

 

[Minigiant]

My bar is higher than yours. You claimed a dichotomy. My option of both sets my bar higher than your low one.

My bar has a minimum of 40 new spells and a preference of 60. My bar is pretty high I think.

There's a section of the community that doesn't like hit points or armor class, too. If you want the section of the community who is not okay with adding new ideas or concepts as an impediment, you need to show that it's as large or larger than the section that wants it. Or at the very least a very sizable minority.

The anti new psionic mechanics community is big enough collectively for them to abandon Psionics as a class for a few years. The don't want a fixed mystic. They didn't like PP dice. They don't want 1e, 2e, 3e, nor 4e psionic mechanics. There just are enough people willing to "just let this play out and let WOTC create". Hence constant WOTC hesitation.

I point you to the artificer. Clearly they aren't shying away from classes with new elements

How many new exclusive spells did artificer get?

Anyway artificers really didn't get a new mechanic and most as another form of attunement that is personal and shared.

A lot of the artificers acceptance as due to the artificer not overlapping with any 5e class in their current form. This is unlike the shaman, witch, Psion, warlord, and scholar which gets " why don't you just play an X with the Y subclass? It's the same if you squint and don't think so hard".

WotC stopped having the community choose a while ago. WotC is the only choice that matters right now, and they have shown a willingness to make new classes, design new psionic mechanics, and work to put out good stuff.

And you need to show that the section of the community you are talking about is as sizable as you are claiming.

WOTC made one class. And that was because it was require to do Eberron.

WOTC did psionic subclasses because it is still wary of the community and could get away with a half measure for a theme that most of the community either don't care about or doesn't know about.

The designers' passion for psionics is lower than their fear of the community. Much like a lot of 5e, a lot of elements with smaller fandoms aren't being tailored to directly at all. So you have things designed for people who don't care about the element that much or don't care about it at all.

 

[Maxperson]

Nice! Thinking about it, maybe what should separate Wizards and Psions is a narrower focus. Instead of letting them have a grab bag of psychic powers, force them to really specialize in one Discipline.

So you can have your Spacing Guild who are masters of Psychoportation, your Bene Gesserit who have powers that certainly seem like mentalism (even if, in universe, we're told they aren't), Seers who can see distant events or even pierce the veil of the future, etc..

That's a mechanical difference I can get behind.

I've always been partial to one specialty and 2 minors. One where you could go to the equivalent of 9th spell level equivalent and the others 4th or 5th level max. Making them too hyperspecialized can be boring.