D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Minigiant]

The Warlock and the Sorcerer are identical.

Both make a pact to have their bodies magically transformed by a patron.

The Sorcerer doesn't make a pact.

The Sorcerers' powers are "genetic". Either from an ancestor passing down or an event altering their "genes". It's just that D&D doesn't speak of genes. The closest would be a truename and I believe sorcery is part of your true name.

The issue isthat D&D doesn't elaborate much on the difference of Magic in your Genes and Magic from a Pact. Other than that they are different. There is no way to strip a sorcerer of its magic barring polymorphing. And no one except maybe deities can make them purposely outside of the "old fashioned way".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Heh, should and is are different things.

A plausible future is, the Sorcerer is absent from 50e and the Warlock updates the flavor to emphasize the bodily transformation that occurs during the pact.

Later on, a Draconic pact subclass can become available.

You think the 2024 revision will literally remove an entire class? In what way is that compatible with existing 5e books? They just reprinted two books that include subclasses for the sorcerer. Not to mentioned excising that much content in what is ostensibly a revised reprint would be a huge change impossible to ignore. I don't see a world where that happens.

 

[MoonSong]

The Cleric is about symbols and oaths and language and ideas and ethics, and especially the concept of a sacred community. It has little or nothing to do with what the Warlock is.

The Sorcerer is about magic as nature, family, destiny, instinct, and especially about being special. It also has nothing to do with what the Warlock is.

Edit: Seriously, for somebody advocating for being open minded to more options, you come across as very wizard-centric. You claim to want a character who stands on its own power, yet you purposely misrepresent and dismiss the one class with inherent power. From what you write, it seems as if the sorcerer is an unplayable mess without any consistency. And while it is evident it needed a couple more passes at design, its main issues (poor stamina, poor access to spells, few spells known) have nothing to do with the core mechanics of the class, which are pretty cool and enable unique tricks.

 

[James Gasik]

In light of my recent woes regarding religion, I'm going to try and not use specific terms. In a widely published book of mythology that I will call B, a divine entity that I will call G, made a pact with a man called A. This pact grants the descendants of A spiritual protection, and makes G their patron deity.

While the exact powers of the pact are not known, they include the ability to see into the future. In a later chapter of B, a person who is not a descendant of A is able to fulfill certain requirements of the pact with G, sufficient to allow them to gain the powers of foresight and use them to their own benefit.

This annoys the Patron, G, who decides to grant visions to this individual (B2, we'll call him) to cause him a great deal of trouble, and eventually lead to the destruction to the enemies of the descendants of A.

In this, you see that the concepts of pact magic, bloodline magic, and divine magic are fairly intertwined, which is common in old myths. The first hero, who we will call Other G (OG), was said to be 2/3 divine, which granted him special powers.

Making pacts with spirits and gods to gain power is inherent in ancient belief systems. I propose that the actual difference between Clerics, Druids, Warlocks, and Sorcerers may not be as great as previously imagined (and hey, don't we have a Sorcerer who can draw on divine magic?).

 

[Minigiant]

In light of my recent woes regarding religion, I'm going to try and not use specific terms. In a widely published book of mythology that I will call B, a divine entity that I will call G, made a pact with a man called A. This pact grants the descendants of A spiritual protection, and makes G their patron deity.

While the exact powers of the pact are not known, they include the ability to see into the future. In a later chapter of B, a person who is not a descendant of A is able to fulfill certain requirements of the pact with G, sufficient to allow them to gain the powers of foresight and use them to their own benefit.

This annoys the Patron, G, who decides to grant visions to this individual (B2, we'll call him) to cause him a great deal of trouble, and eventually lead to the destruction to the enemies of the descendants of A.

In this, you see that the concepts of pact magic, bloodline magic, and divine magic are fairly intertwined, which is common in old myths. The first hero, who we will call Other G (OG), was said to be 2/3 divine, which granted him special powers.

Making pacts with spirits and gods to gain power is inherent in ancient belief systems. I propose that the actual difference between Clerics, Druids, Warlocks, and Sorcerers may not be as great as previously imagined (and hey, don't we have a Sorcerer who can draw on divine magic?).

In (modern) D&D, both Cleric magic and Warlock magic come from pacts.

Cleric pacts can only be done by beings with divine ranks.
Warlocks can can be does by any strong magical being (including dieties if they want)
Sorcery is the only option for "lesser" magical beings like dragons and giants.
Druidism is open to any high being with a connection to nature and has a "no connection" option as magic can be diffused through nature itself.
Psioincs is a wild card as D&D is still too scared to say where it comes from.


Basically
You need a divine rank of 1 or more to make a cleric.
You need a divine rank of 0 or more or be an Arch something to make a warlock
You just need to be "innately magical" to make a sorcerer.
You need to be have a divine rank of 0 or more and have the right portfolio to make a druid.
No one knows how you make a psion.
Wizards, Bards, (and artificers) make their selfs own magical.

 

[Yaarel]

The Sorcerer is about magic as nature, family, destiny, instinct, and especially about being special. It also has nothing to do with what the Warlock is.

Edit: Seriously, for somebody advocating for being open minded to more options, you come across as very wizard-centric. You claim to want a character who stands on its own power, yet you purposely misrepresent and dismiss the one class with inherent power. From what you write, it seems as if the sorcerer is an unplayable mess without any consistency. And while it is evident it needed a couple more passes at design, its main issues (poor stamina, poor access to spells, few spells known) have nothing to do with the core mechanics of the class, which are pretty cool and enable unique tricks.

I said the Sorcerer flavor is good but the Sorcerer mechanics suck.

The Warlock is the other way around, with excellent mechanics but muddled flavor

The Sorcerer doesn't make a pact.

5e Players Handbook, page 102.

"... Any given Sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as the result of a pact. ..."

 

[James Gasik]

Know one knows unless we involve the Deep Realm, which some psionics fans don't like.

 

[James Gasik]

I said the Sorcerer flavor is good but the Sorcerer mechanics suck.

The Warlock is the other way around, with excellent mechanics but muddled flavor



5e Players Handbook, page 102.

"... Any given Sorcerer could be the first of a new bloodline, as the result of a pact. ..."

Yes, I explained that. A made a pact with G so that A's descendants gained divine protection and powers. A Sorcerer gains power through a Pact their ancestor made.

 

[Yaarel]

You think the 2024 revision will literally remove an entire class? In what way is that compatible with existing 5e books? They just reprinted two books that include subclasses for the sorcerer. Not to mentioned excising that much content in what is ostensibly a revised reprint would be a huge change impossible to ignore. I don't see a world where that happens.

50e can ensure that the 2014 Players Handbook Sorcerer remains fully compatible with 50e.

 

[James Gasik]

Hm...so wait...that means the kids of Warlocks are Sorcerers! This sounds like a conspiracy!