D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[MoonSong]

Yeah, you're correct. That just seems so off though, I mean, did they even realize the flavor difference between the classes was so weak by doing that? I mean, look at the short class descriptions and tell me what the difference is here.

Gift=/=Pact

Gifts are freely given and without string attached. Pacts or bargains are exchanges, transactions. The dragon sorcerer who gets a gift from living among dragons as a peer is not holding any bargain. And the options shown for wild magic sorcerers include the blessing of a fey or the mark of the demon as the event that ends up attracting the wild magic, even then, it is an accident, not intended. So you can't make a pact with a fey to become a wm sorcerer, and certainly a demon doesn't intend for its prey to gain the ability to fight back! Remember the quote, nobody can choose to become a sorcerer!

And even then, most dragon sorcerers have an actual dragon as their ancestor. An external entity is normally not involved in the process.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, you're correct. That just seems so off though, I mean, did they even realize the flavor difference between the classes was so weak by doing that? I mean, look at the short class descriptions and tell me what the difference is here.

Yeah. The origin of the two classes does have significant overlap. I mean, why not also allow bargains for warlock powers and behalf of not only yourself, but your children and your children's children? Making bargains on behalf of your heirs and descendants is something known in fiction and real life.

 

[Maxperson]

Gift=/=Pact

You're seriously arguing that you couldn't make a deal for sorcerer powers from a being that can grant them?

Human: "Oh, mighty god of magic, I have always wanted to be a sorcerer and offer up to you this mighty artifact that has been passed down through my family for generations."

God of Magic: "Sorry. I can't do that. I mean, I could GIVE you the ability, but have no reason to do that and you aren't worthy of the gift. I'm only allowed to make warlocks if we bargain. So sorry!"

 

[James Gasik]

I don't know, I've been given quite a few "gifts" in my life that turned out to have strings attached...

Ok, so Psionics. Here's the problem with discussions about Psionics. Most people don't understand what Psionics are. Many people need to be able to file something in a box to understand it. And most discussions about Psionics boil down to what they are not.

"So I think psychic powers would be cool for the game."

"What like magic?"

"No, unlike magic, psionics come from the mind. There's nothing magical about it at all, and you can create all kinds of effects like telekinesis, reading minds, predicting the future."

"So...mind magic then. Ok."

"No, it's not magic."

"Uh. In D&D things are magic or they're not. If dragons fly or breath fire, are you saying that's not magical?"

"No, I'm sure there is some magic involved..."

"So what's the difference with psionics then? What makes them so special?"

And we go around and around talking about "well, the power source is different, and it's internal not external" but in the end, it comes down to, if it's something you can do in the real world, it's not magic. If it's something you can't, it's magic.

So the typical psionics fan is like "well, it's mechanically different from magic, that's it's flavor."

And the reaction to that is, "why?".

And once you get to that point, you're likely not going to ever convince that person to get on board with psionics.

 

[Maxperson]

There's also this from Creating a Sorcerer.

"How do you feel about the magical power coursing through you? Do you embrace it, try to master it, or revel in its unpredictable nature? Is it a blessing or a curse? Did you seek it out, or did it find you?"

That implies that you can make a deal to get it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Gift=/=Pact

Gifts are freely given and without string attached. Pacts or bargains are exchanges, transactions. The dragon sorcerer who gets a gift from living among dragons as a peer is not holding any bargain. And the options shown for wild magic sorcerers include the blessing of a fey or the mark of the demon as the event that ends up attracting the wild magic, even then, it is an accident, not intended. So you can't make a pact with a fey to become a wm sorcerer, and certainly a demon doesn't intend for its prey to gain the ability to fight back! Remember the quote, nobody can choose to become a sorcerer!

And even then, most dragon sorcerers have an actual dragon as their ancestor. An external entity is normally not involved in the process.

This is completely crazy level of hairsplitting. There is no sensible reason for this resulting metaphysically differently working magic. It’s like was mechanically different soldier class depending on whether you volunteered or were drafted.

 

[Cadence]

This is completely crazy level of hairsplitting. There is no sensible reason for this resulting metaphysically differently working magic. It’s like was mechanically different soldier class depending on whether you volunteered or were drafted.

I mean, in the US in the Vietnam era didn't one of them get you a good chance to be sent where you wanted (maybe with training to repair machinery or something), and the other probably got you shipped overseas (with training for the infantry)...

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah that's probably a not great example, as there is a difference between going to a military academy and being fast tracked for a comission and being a conscripted grunt.

 

[Shardstone]

Why does no one complain about most of the monk features not using spells?

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah that's probably a not great example, as there is a difference between going to a military academy and being fast tracked for a comission and being a conscripted grunt.

That wasn't his example, though. There isn't a difference between someone voluntarily joining the army as a grunt and being drafted as a grunt.