D&D 3E/3.5 What 3.5'isms do you use you swore you wouldn't?

[jasamcarl]

Which made power attack a useless feat. How many low AC opponents do you see at mid to high levels? My guess is not a lot. Thus it was a worthless feat...you obviously don't have a convincing argument that it is overpowered now, and everything i've seen suggests it only breaks even against high- AC opponents, rendering irrelevant from a balance pov.

BTW, i think your problems with shapechange were pretty dubious as well....Well, actually, pretty much all your complaints...

 

[Scion]

Power Attack was never for high-AC opponents. It was for low AC opponents. ---

Having form changing magic change your type is horrible - and allowing Shapechange to snag (Su) abilities is obscene.

Endurance at 1 minute a level may as well not exist. Why you would spend a 2nd level spell during a battle to have extra hit points until the end of the battle I just cannot fathom. The others are better - but now really only useful for the attackers in a teleport ambush - a tactic I hate and don't want to encourage. Having no less than six spells in one school at one level which are all exclusively for that tactic is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to happen.

Savage Species was a crappy book - and adopting its Level Adjustment mentality into the Core Rules was a bad idea. If you are going to charge people 3 levels to play a CR 1 Gnoll - you may as well just not let them play. Similarly, the Epic Level Rules have a number of conceptual problems and are not balanced (and encourage really weird builds as it creates a whole new paradigms of ways in which two characters with exactly the same class make-up can be at radically different power levels). Including those in the Core books was dumb - especially as they only included the basic Epic Level Advancement system (that didn't work) and left all the cool Epic monsters out.

The changes to the Action rules have almost universally been terrible. Making "standing up from prone" provoke attacks of opportunity has overpowered trip to a degree that is difficult to comprehend. The "only on your turn" restriction for Free actions has left Feather Fall out in the cold with no meaningful gain.

-Frank

I dont think pa is overpowered now, but making it not work on light weapons is horrible. Shadow magic is ok making creatures, what was the problem?

But anyway, I agree with you for the most part. The vast majority of changes were just plain bad or unnecissary. Do you have a more comprehensive list so that I can agree with you more? lol.. keep up the fight!

 

[silentspace]

Here's my two cents, not that anyone asked for it.

Stat bonus spells: Was not over-powered in 3.0, as long as you followed the rules and used it as a non-stacking enhancement bonus. Yes, at very high levels it seems broken, but by that level most people will have obtained stat-enhancing items in the areas most important to them. In 3.5, its pretty useless.

Power attack: It was OK in 3.0 (remember you needed 2 feats to be half-decent in TWF, unless you are a ranger which is a separate issue entirely). Its OK in 3.5 too, but the light weapon/double weapon stuff just complicates things unnecessarily).

Damage reduction: I prefer 3.0 for only one reason: its less complicated. Other than that, 3.5 does add "flavor".

Improved Grapple: I've always been unhappy with how grapple works, in every edition. No suggestions on improving it though

 

[jasamcarl]

I dont think pa is overpowered now, but making it not work on light weapons is horrible. Shadow magic is ok making creatures, what was the problem?

But anyway, I agree with you for the most part. The vast majority of changes were just plain bad or unnecissary. Do you have a more comprehensive list so that I can agree with you more? lol.. keep up the fight!

The guy is a troll....he didn't even read the feather fall description...And tripping is hardly overpowered..it provokes an attack of oppurtunity in return for possibly proning an opponent, which essentially costs him a move action and AoO in return; the former isn't a big deal, so you are talking about recieving a definite AoO (assuming no improved trip) and are gaining the possibility of inflicting an AoO. It's only worthwhile for groups of enemies...and even then, its not really overpowered...

 

[Cedric]

I have to admit that I found the Paladin Poke-Mount a lot more convenient then I thought it would. I still find it incredibly distasteful to use...but it's convenient.

Cedric

 

[Hypersmurf]

And tripping is hardly overpowered..(assuming no improved trip)..

Ahhhh.

-Hyp.

 

[jasamcarl]

Ahhhh.

-Hyp.

Even then, its hardly worth it. For str concentrated enemies, they give up a full rounds worth of damage. Same goes with fighters..and how often are your pcs going to beat a strength check at mid to high levels with anything they face? And in a well rounded party, who besides the resident fighter will be able to take advantage of the prone position? I don't see it...

 

[FrankTrollman]

The guy is a troll....he didn't even read the feather fall description

Actually, I did. Here's the important part:

Casting Time: 1 free action
....

You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall.

The interaction problem happens if you fall unexpectedly during combat - while you can cast the spell fast enough to save yourself - you can't actually take free actions on other peoples' actions in 3.5. So if you unexpected fall because an opponent bullrushes you out a window - you don't get the opportunity to cast your spell until your initiative comes up. And that's after you hit the ground.

3rd edition had exactly the same text on Feather Fall but it didn't have the in-combat restriction on Free Actions during other players' actions and thus did not have this problem.

And tripping is hardly overpowered..it provokes an attack of oppurtunity in return for possibly proning an opponent, which essentially costs him a move action and AoO in return

Actually, it doesn't do any of those things.

In 3rd edition, Trip was a risky version of Aid Another with significantly larger dividends (+4 to-hit and AC and costs your opponent a MEA, instead of just +2 to-hit or AC). In return for these larger benefits it might not work and could end up backfiring on you. There were two feats associated with it: Improved Trip and Knockdown. Improved Trip gave you your attack action back if you succeeded, and Knockdown prevented it from backfiring.

In 3.5 those still exist - but everyone essentially gets their attack action back if their trip works. So now Improved Trip doesn't give you your attack back - it doubles your attack. So now Knockdown is simply adding a cleave attack to everyone you ever hit.

And when you bust out with a Triptastic Druid in Wildshape - who attacks and Trips with no possibility of countertripping, and then gets an attack from Improved Trip, and then gets an Attack of Opportunity - it's just plain overpowered.

So if you don't know what you are talking about - or how to use capital letters and punctuation in order to organize your thoughts - don't call people "trolls". It's rude, and starts flame wars.

-Frank

 

[Saeviomagy]

The guy is a troll....he didn't even read the feather fall description...And tripping is hardly overpowered..it provokes an attack of oppurtunity in return for possibly proning an opponent, which essentially costs him a move action and AoO in return; the former isn't a big deal, so you are talking about recieving a definite AoO (assuming no improved trip) and are gaining the possibility of inflicting an AoO. It's only worthwhile for groups of enemies...and even then, its not really overpowered...

Is it really necessary to abuse people because you disagree with them?

Anyway, you're right. Feather fall has a specific "even if it's not your turn" clause.

My POV on trip was that in 3.0, it was as good as a waste of time, except upon opponents vastly higher in level than you (ie - ones you can't damage normally). You used it to give the one guy in the party who could do damage a +4 to hit, and cut your opponents attacks down to 1/round. In 3.5, you now actually get utility out of the ability, which improved trip increases somewhat. My problems with trip remain that it's independant of base attack bonus (making it a good tactic against creatures much more powerful than yourself), and that having ranks in balance doesn't help defend against it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here's the important part:

Well, that's one important part.

The important-er part, in this case, might be considered to be "Casting the spell is a free action, like casting a quickened spell, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened spell per round. You may even cast this spell when it isn’t your turn."

For str concentrated enemies, they give up a full rounds worth of damage.

... why, exactly? Improved Trip lets you make a melee attack after you trip them... and a character optimised for tripping will have a very high Strength plus assorted trip-specific bonuses.

-Hyp.