D&D 3E/3.5 What are the "problem" spells in 3E?

[Sagiro]

But all the smackdown combos assume that the wizard is only fighting that fight today. Heaven forbid he may want to actually fight more than once...

I hear this reasoning used all the time in defense of the "unbrokenness" of haste. In my opinion and experience, this drawback is very overrated. Yes, it can make carefree spellcasters burn through spells at twice the rate. But what seldom gets mentioned is that double-speed spells make the combat end sooner. My two lightning bolts (or whatever) do the same amount of damage, and kill my foes just as dead, whether or not it takes me two rounds or one to cast them.

Plus, don't discount the ability to both cast a spell and use a magic item in the same round!

Sure, if a spellcaster is reckless, this can be a problem. But I've been playing an oft-hasted high-level non-melee cleric for a while now, and I've never run out of spells in mid-combat, even after three gruesome "boss-monster level" battles in a single day.

On a related note, I'm more convinced than ever that Mass Haste is the most important spell in the book in any combat involving multiple spellcasters. That is, take any large high-level combat, and after it's over, look back at every spell that was cast and ask: "How would that combat have played out if that spell wasn't cast?" With the possible exception of Mass Heal, Mass Haste is the clear winner, in terms of the overall effect on a combat. (We've recently reached the point where 9th level spells are starting to fly around, so I may change my mind before too long. But Mass Haste is a 6th level spell, for crying out loud.)

-Sagiro

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Enervation is not unclear, or even commonly house ruled from what I have seen. We'll leave balance to other threads. If you want to discuss that particular spell, start a thread and I'll chime in along with everyone else .

 

[twjensen]

My least favorite spells.

Fly -- K, now all the DM's ground based monsters are useless. Pretty much rules out half the freakin' monster manual unless everything is a dungeon crawl with 6' high ceilings. And if the DM starts letting NPCs use it, then the fighter and rogue characters start bitching about the DM being stingy with magic arrows.

Suggestion -- Either way overpowered or completely useless, DM's pick.

Identify -- Let's take the bard's ONLY useful ability and make it a first level mage spell. I don't have a problem with the spell, if you have a campaign where no one wants to play a bard.

Expeditious Retreat (and all other rapid movement spells) -- Well, let's just give all mages the movement ablilities of high level monks and barbarians! Yay! Again, no problem with the spell(s) except then they give movement abilities to the monk as if the monk player is supposed to think its a big deal or something.

 

[Psifon]

TWJensen, I completely disagree with every one of the spells you listed. They are all fine IMO. I also disagree with the addition of the divination spells listed above (commune, legend lore, etc.). All of these spells simply require that the DM take them into account in setting up the adventure. And remember, the Identify spell costs 100 gp. This is not chump change to a low level party.

I am suprised that no one listed Mirror Image.

Mirror image is in the poorly written category. First off there is no game mechanic for what happens when you don't move from one round to the next. Secondly, there is nothing about how this spell interacts with the whirlwind attack feat and the greatcleave feat. This oversight has spawned numerous arguement threads, and virtually REQUIRES a house rule from the DM once the situation comes up.

BTW, I agree that the incantatrix is an all out broken PrC. No wizard player should ever NOT take this PrC, just for the improved metamagic, never mind the level drain immunity!

 

[Plane Sailing]

As for shield and the tower shield facing problem - how about only allowing them to give their bonuses to a limited amount of attacks/attackers per round?

My own houserule of Shield was that you can determine one attacker against which it gives you the cover bonus, and you can change that attacker each round as a free action. This fits nicely with the imagery of the invisible disk (if you can have such a thing) and gets rid of facing problems.

Sorry for venturing into that territory Cloudy!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Expeditious Retreat - does it make you Fly faster? Does it help a monk's supernatural speed? Etc...

 

[Dark Dragon]

Re: My least favorite spells.

Fly -- K, now all the DM's ground based monsters are useless. Pretty much rules out half the freakin' monster manual unless everything is a dungeon crawl with 6' high ceilings. And if the DM starts letting NPCs use it, then the fighter and rogue characters start bitching about the DM being stingy with magic arrows.

That spell I missed on the list. The spell alone is only nasty when used in open areas. In conjunction with other spells ( Shield, Protection from Elements, Improved Invisibility, Nondetection and Protection from Arrows), things become very bad. When I DMed my second adventure (still being quite a rookie; the story was a bought module for 13-15 lvl pcs), the necromancer used that tactic - and killed over 100 level 5 fighters with fireballs and cones of cold within a few rounds... That was in AD&D times. Now, Fly has become better: it cannot be dispelled as most other spells can - it "fades out" when dispelled. So, our flying mage has enough time to cast an other Fly or teleport away...Why the heck this nonsense? If there's an errata for this point, please tell me.

 

[Dark Dragon]

I just remembered Wall of Force. It gives no save. An often used tactic is that the wizard casts the hemispherical version over a powerful opponent, mostly fighters or monsters without teleportation ability. He leaves a few centimeters of free space between ground and wall to cast Fireballs or similar area spells under it...=> level 18 fighter toasted by level 9 mage. Nice.

The problems I've mentioned for Fly, apply more or less to Levitation.

Nondetection is quite unclear.

Identify: Why that long casting time for a little information? Seems to be a simple copy from AD&D. Same for Analyse Dweomer, the casting takes too long.

Ressurection: not needed, IMHO. Raise Dead and True Ressurection suffice. This has been discussed before somewhere.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

He leaves a few centimeters of free space between ground and wall to cast Fireballs or similar area spells under it...=>

Is that tactic legal, under the rules? Yikes!

Wall of Stone. Stone should have more hp/inch, IMO. A fighter could hack through the wall pretty quickly (Power Attack). I can picture a dragon breeching the wall, but a fighter?

 

[Grundle]

Overpowered spells?! They're all broken! Why in my day we didn't have all these fancy wizard spells. We wizards beat our enemies senseless with our spellbooks. And we liked it!

My vote for the most broken spell...

Prestidigitation - You can't imagine the horror felt by an ancient red wyrm when he hears his archmage nemesis say those dreadful words of doom... "Pick a card. Any card."