D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Cadence]

Npcs don’t need stat blocks?

I mean that a bit tongue in cheek, but, unless your townspeople are mobbing to burn the witch, why would you bother with a stat block for the grocer or the cook?

Ohhhhh. Right. They need a stat block to be believable.

There’s probably the biggest issue in 5e. Gamers who were trained by 3e and its antecedent games that everyone and everything needs game stats.

I am not at all a 4e fan. But I am all over its letting NPCs and monsters have their own rules when it doesn't make sense for them to use the PC ones.

My most hated thing in 3.5/PF is the high level commoner or expert's HP total and BAB bonuses.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Does only getting big discrete advances in capability go against realism/versimilitude? (Do students become more skillful after each course or two they finish in their major? Or only after they earn they finish their BS, MS, and PhD?)

Of course not, but if you're going to level, I feel it should mean something. There are plenty of softer ways to improve, like downtime training, buying or otherwise acquiring new gear, starting a business, building a keep, training an army, starting a congregation, advancing in/founding a guild, etc. Interspersed these with the bump of leveling and you've got yourself a nice array. Shame there aren't rules for most of that anymore.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I mean, I assume you went to high school and have a basic education in human biology but based on your comments who knows.

Today Vaalingrade learns that the same word can have different meanings.

Mod Note:

It’s one thing to have a discussion with someone you disagree with, and quite another to be disagreeable. These posts cross the line. Making it personal like this is against the rules. Don’t do it in future.

 

[mamba]

Is that actually an issue? Like at all? Bards can have good ideas too. And if the Fighter has a good idea...why wouldn't they tell the Bard who is more likely to succeed on a good idea too?

Can go all of these ways really. There is nothing that says the Bard always gets it wrong The point is more that the Fighter can be engaged despite the low CHA

Plus, Charm Person. You don't even need a good idea. Just an idea that isn't so obviously stupid/awful that a feverish five year old could see through it. Where's your "Fighter with a good idea" equivalent there?

not much, apart from nerfing casters into the ground Take away / move up all their auto-succeed skills and focus on damage and general adventuring stuff

 

[Fifth Element]

I think it can be imagined as impressive powers of observation from an individual with a lot of combat experience.

Yes exactly. But this is a perfect illustration of why claiming that certain things can only be seen as supernatural doesn't work. There are many ways to imagine things happening. This harkens back to the bad old days of people claiming that 4E warlords can shout someone's arm back on. How you choose to imagine things has a massive impact.

This is not an excuse to dismiss one's argument by calling them a hypocrite.

No one did that. I think you owe an apology for implying that they did. They pointed out an inconsistency with your argument, nothing more.

 

[Hussar]

I feel like you're somehow finding a better quality of 3PPs to me!

My experience is it's not a wash at all, it's just bad.

But the 3PP market is vast and I've only seen what I've seen (but again that does include Critical Role and most of their stuff is good for 3PP standards but awful by 5E standards).

Also cards on the table, I think 5E is easily the best-balanced non-4E edition of D&D (and less possible to break than 4E, but not quite as well-balanced generally).


Yeah we can only hope Beyond does more as time goes on. It'd make them an awful lot of money!


To be clear, I'm not saying all of it is - but the vast majority of what I've encountered has been somewhere been totally broken and slightly subpar in a way that indicates the designer doesn't even understand 5E as well as I do, which I would consider a low bar! Some of it is definitely very attractive whilst being terrible rules, I should note - I have a crocodile-person race book I really like for example but the rules really range from LOL BROKEN to "Almost..." even in just one book.

I imagine it’s far more to do with how important we each find balance. You’ve been pretty clear that you find all sorts of things unbalanced in 5e that I simply don’t.

Perhaps I’m just not a great judge of balance. Entirely possible.

 

[Hussar]

I can tell you that I want WotC to do it because I want to sell that more complete, better version of D&D. And play it. And while you're right that a perfect world would have everyone happy to play with 3PP, the one we live in unfortunately gives "Real" D&D a HUGE leg-up over everything else when it comes to popularity and player buy-in.

Heck, my after-hours group plays at my store, and my players are happy to play other non-D&D RPGs, but they won't touch a 3PP rule or rulebook. (Little do they know that I slip Level-Up & @Nixlord's MME monsters into their D&D games when I DM, mwhaahaha).

Oh totally agree.

That’s why I think it’s a true problem.

People absolutely won’t touch anything that doesn’t have the WotC seal of approval. It’s incredibly frustrating.

Heck, my first big 5e purchase was Primeval Thule. I could not care less what WotC publishes honestly. My adventures, monsters and a large swath of stuff I use as a dm doesn’t come from WotC.

My players otoh won’t even consider anything that isn’t.

 

[Hussar]

WotC's definition seems to me to be "good guy who does good guy things, mostly 'cause its the right thing to do". Nearly all their adventures and most of their non-rule text reflects this.

What adventures are you reading?

I mean what adventures in DnD have ever not been good guys who do good things because it’s the right thing to do?

 

[Lanefan]

No, I'm really not sure that there actually are. I think once or twice Jon takes on multiple zombies/walkers (like the big battle at Hardhome), but his Valyrian Steel blade makes them 4E-style Minions for him. I think the most we see Brienne take on is two or three guys who try to bring her and Arya in. Can you cite any specific scenes? I think Jon kills a few or several guys in the big battle when the Wildlings assault Castle Black, but I don't think he fights more than one or two at a time.

He also takes out a whole bunch of opposing troops during the battle of the bastards, before going down himself and getting half-buried in the pile of bodies he helped generate. And between them he and Tormund take out a lot of zombies in the escape from Eastwatch.

We do see Sandor Clegane take on those four Lannister soldiers at the inn all at once, right?

Yes. And in one (or several?) of the maritime battles Euron Greyjoy takes on numerous fighting sailors.

 

[Lanefan]

I said that we couldn't assume that they ARE so limited. That is completely different. It is the difference between the following two statements:

(1) "Because we do not know what color the car is, we can be certain that it is not blue unless told otherwise."
(2) "Because we do not know what color the car is, we cannot assume that it is red unless told otherwise."

"Because we don't know what colour the car is, we cannot assume it is a car" is more like what you seem to have been saying here.

When we're told something is a Human I think we get to assume it's just like us until-unless told otherwise.