mamba
Legend
precisely
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D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
mamba
Legend
I don't think you are arguing for the humans in FR being Neanderthals though....
Gammadoodler
Hero
I just know that of there's one thing fantasy settings need, it's strictly observed biological taxonomies.
Vaalingrade
Legend
No one is!
No one.
We are arguing that fantasy humans don't need to be the exact same as Earth humans. That's all. That's it.
Fantasy humans are exactly as fantastic as everything else in the world. They're not some Mundane Absolute Point. and even if they were, normal humans are capable of greater feats than people who demand verisimilitude seem to realize. I posted a video of it. Caught in 180P.
mamba
Legend
obviously.... that was my point
I am not disagreeing with that, I am simply having a different idea about how fantastic I prefer them to be.
I disagree, a Dragonborn will always be more fantastic to me than a human, same for a dragon. An elf is not as fantastical as a beholder or Zuggtmoy.
I do not even want everything to be the same level of fantastical, I want human (Homo Sapiens Sapiens, just for you) heroes in a fantastical setting, with concessions for the hero part. I am not looking for Superman, the TTRPG.
Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Hey, I want verisimilitude.
But verisimilitude is served and my suspension of disbelief works better if I assume that D&D humans are not exactly the same as Earth humans.
If I want rules for Earth humans with Earth human limitations I'm probably better off playing some system which models injury, for example. And doesn't allow one to hold a Rhino immobile with one hand.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Because you can't have fantastical things that look exactly like non-fantastical ones without calling out that point, in my view. Where fantasy differs from the mundane, and it isn't visibly obvious, why would all of you assume everyone just "gets it", where so much of the most well-known work in the genre (@Ruin Explorer 's modern list not withstanding) does call out the supernatural? I really don't get where this resistance is coming from.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
So I stepped away from this thread to run a game last night and coming back ... oh my. I think we are pretty deep in the weeds at the moment. And don't get me wrong, I do love me some deep in the weeds discussions.
My problem is that we're talking about things that the 5E designers just don't care about, and that 5E D&D is not a game about. The last edition of D&D that tried to be a "physics simulator" was 3X. I had a really fun discussion with Monte Cook about how the lifting rules for 3X came from the Hero system (Champions) where he did a lot of work. That is absolutely not where we are with 5E (or were with 4E). I know all of you know that.
D&D cares about a really narrow set of issues, perhaps fewer than any other edition of the game (that's debatable, however). The rules also care about some odd corner cases that I suspect were important to a particular designer at the time. The concerns I have with it are where it doesn't do a particularly good job of handling the issues that it clearly tells you it wants to. Adventuring day? Yeah, that's a good example.
When the game was designed, I think (and like everything else I'm writing, this is just me) I think it was a "oh crap", apology, and keeping the lights on combination. I think that's what the first couple years of the game clearly reflect. In 2023 (and 2024...) this isn't the case. We have (had?) the opportunity to update the issues where the game doesn't do what it tells you it wants to very well. I think that's the point of discussing "true issues." Sadly, it doesn't seem like much of that is going to happen in 2024. For those who keep track, that will be a mea culpa moment for me because I thought we really were going to see some major changes.
In no way am I saying don't discuss the physical capabilities of humans in the D&D world, because I'm popping some popcorn, but also remember that it's something that the game isn't going to address in the new books. Like a lot of people, I'm just hoping to get a game that gives a better idea of what it is and how to run it for new people at this point.
My problem is that we're talking about things that the 5E designers just don't care about, and that 5E D&D is not a game about. The last edition of D&D that tried to be a "physics simulator" was 3X. I had a really fun discussion with Monte Cook about how the lifting rules for 3X came from the Hero system (Champions) where he did a lot of work. That is absolutely not where we are with 5E (or were with 4E). I know all of you know that.
D&D cares about a really narrow set of issues, perhaps fewer than any other edition of the game (that's debatable, however). The rules also care about some odd corner cases that I suspect were important to a particular designer at the time. The concerns I have with it are where it doesn't do a particularly good job of handling the issues that it clearly tells you it wants to. Adventuring day? Yeah, that's a good example.
When the game was designed, I think (and like everything else I'm writing, this is just me) I think it was a "oh crap", apology, and keeping the lights on combination. I think that's what the first couple years of the game clearly reflect. In 2023 (and 2024...) this isn't the case. We have (had?) the opportunity to update the issues where the game doesn't do what it tells you it wants to very well. I think that's the point of discussing "true issues." Sadly, it doesn't seem like much of that is going to happen in 2024. For those who keep track, that will be a mea culpa moment for me because I thought we really were going to see some major changes.
In no way am I saying don't discuss the physical capabilities of humans in the D&D world, because I'm popping some popcorn, but also remember that it's something that the game isn't going to address in the new books. Like a lot of people, I'm just hoping to get a game that gives a better idea of what it is and how to run it for new people at this point.
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Gammadoodler
Hero
And...
...even if they were..they are one of many selectable species. Other options include dragonfolk, catfolk, smallfolk, birdfolk, feyfolk, fiendfolk angelfolk, merfolk, robots, and dwarves.
What possible biological justification for these other species' selectively absolute mundanity?
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