D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

The point of encumbrance is the balancing of mundane equipment, magic use (spells or items), and proficiencies / skills versus the amount of loot or other goods. At least for me this isn't a "gotcha" thing. It's not meant to trick the players, but see if they want to depend on the wizard for shelter and the ranger to supplement their food supply. And, sometimes things go wrong and supplies are lost in the rapids or stolen in a raid. How do you adapt to that?
 

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They want to depend on the wizard for shelter already because mundane tents literally do nothing while the Tiny Hut shelters you from a mechanical standpoint.

And they don't want or care about the ranger's foraging because goodberry lets you have food without having to interact with encumbrance or rations or any of that other tedium.

The best part of encumbrance and logistics tracking is not having to do them.
 


I think the point being made is that it... doesn't really matter what the point of an encumbrance mechanic is, if that mechanic isn't producing gameplay that players find interesting or compelling or enjoyable.
That is true of literally every mechanic. You have to find a group that appreciates the value of mundane resource management.
 

They want to depend on the wizard for shelter already because mundane tents literally do nothing while the Tiny Hut shelters you from a mechanical standpoint.

And they don't want or care about the ranger's foraging because goodberry lets you have food without having to interact with encumbrance or rations or any of that other tedium.
Mundane tents provide shelter, it's why they're on the equipment list. But, they are also heavy. Having a wizard is more convenient but they have to save a 3rd level spell for it. Goodberry is an excellent option, certainly, but you're a bit stuck without a druid or any season other than summer.

The best part of encumbrance and logistics tracking is not having to do them.
It's okay if you're not interested in Man vs. Nature conflict. Some of us are, and there is shockingly little tedium in the decisions.
 

Mundane tents provide shelter, it's why they're on the equipment list.
That's not really true. They provide exactly as much or as little shelter as the DM decides.

There are, AFAIK, and please correct me if I'm wrong, no rules in 5E that say tents provide actual meaningful shelter and I've certainly come across DMs who think they basically don't, and I don't think they were being difficult, just their concept of a medieval tent was that it kept the rain off and not much else. Nothing in the one-line description really challenges this.

Whereas Tiny Hut specifies exactly what it does:

The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.

And this is the pattern that @Vaalingrade is, I believe, referring to.

Magic gives exact details on exactly how it works, and can never fail. You can't screw up casting Tiny Hut and it always gives that perfect shelter. You can't make Goodberries that don't work, nor can they go bad or otherwise fail, and one is all anyone needs. Also each tent fits 2 people, and "Tiny Hut" ain't that tiny because it fits 9 people.
It's okay if you're not interested in Man vs. Nature conflict. Some of us are, and there is shockingly little tedium in the decisions.
Unfortunately 5E doesn't really support that conflict mechanically.

An RPG could, and I'm sure there are 3PP supplements for 5E that do, but 5E doesn't, really. So it becomes a matter of what you can get the DM to agree to. And unfortunately we come back to one of the key problems with all editions of D&D except, arguably, 4E, which is that only casters get to make statements about what's happening, everyone else has to negotiate with the DM. And it doesn't matter how reasonable the DM is, negotiating is simply different from making statements. So you're going to have to argue about how your tents help in this blizzard or whatever, or the spellcaster can just state to the DM that he's casting Tiny Hut, and state what Tiny Hut does, and the DM just has to go along with that, there's no negotiation or discussion. It's just what happens. And if you slightly adversarial DM? It's more of an issue - he may be a fun DM, but if he likes to argue, this problem increases. Because he still can't argue with the caster. He just has to accept it.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

D&D just hasn't developed rules well in that area, and D&D's absolutist, never-fails approach utility magic lets you state game reality to the DM in a way that nothing else does.
 

Mundane tents provide shelter, it's why they're on the equipment list. But, they are also heavy. Having a wizard is more convenient but they have to save a 3rd level spell for it.
Tents stop nothing mechanically. Anything that is a threat to the party or would impose any penalties go right through them. In fact, they technically don't even protect you from normal elements like the heat of the sun. If you want any kind of mechanical protection, you need a spellcaster --like everything in D&D.

Carrying tents is a sucker's game.


Goodberry is an excellent option, certainly, but you're a bit stuck without a druid or any season other than summer.
Then you fall back on create food and water, since we need a cleric again.

It's okay if you're not interested in Man vs. Nature conflict. Some of us are, and there is shockingly little tedium in the decisions.
It's okay if you're into it, but don't tell me what's not tedious to me. Or make me engage with it.
 

You know what would be good Man Vs Nature stuff?

Weather rules!

More interesting terrain features including hazardous terrain like poison sumac patches and crumbling escarpments!

Fantastic animals the game doesn't insist are monstrosities with lairs and watering holes and game trails!

Camping equipment that does things!

Cooking and Fishing and Trapping and Crafting!

Any of the actual reasons people go hiking and camping instead of faithfully reproducing the Donner Party Experience of just suffering through the trip!
 

I think the point being made is that it... doesn't really matter what the point of an encumbrance mechanic is, if that mechanic isn't producing gameplay that players find interesting or compelling or enjoyable.
Exactly. If the point of the game is that hard scrabble for carrying loot out of the dungeon, it’s great. Otherwise it’s pointless bookkeeping.
 

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