D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Swarmkeeper]

There's no reason that that particular consequence would be obvious before the attempt was made, but I have had many players who would scream bloody murder if it happened when they failed a check.

I let my players know the consequences of Ability Checks when I ask them to roll. To me, that represents that their PC is a capable adventurer who has some idea of the difficulty and stakes of what they are trying to attempt in the game world. There is nothing in the rules that precludes this.

Sorry to hear about those players you've experienced at your table. Doesn't sound like that made for a fun environment.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I let my players know the consequences of Ability Checks when I ask them to roll. To me, that represents that their PC is a capable adventurer who has some idea of the difficulty and stakes of what they are trying to attempt in the game world. There is nothing in the rules that precludes this.

Sorry to hear about those players you've experienced at your table. Doesn't sound like that made for a fun environment.

As I said, there's no reason the PCs would know what the reaction to a failed roll would be for sure, so they don't. In the future, I would perhaps preface the campaign with a statement that this kind of thing can happen.

 

[Lanefan]

Problem is that usually turns into DM doesn't want to deal with "x level" abilities and then leveling is jsut an arbitrary mess that rewards no one.

Not sure how one follows from the other here.

Levelling still rewards who it was going to reward, even if the DM for some reason caps it at a point lower than the game is designed for (as in the E6 version of 3e).

It's just that random thing that happens while you are eating your gruel.

Well, yes. The WotC editions all level up far too fast for my liking. Further, I don't have people level up --ding-- in the field; they need training in order to get whatever new abilities the level gives.

 

[Maxperson]

Gonna call shenanigans on this. If four year old you grabbed a goose by the neck, said goose would have beaten the living tar out of you.

Geese is brute.

I did and it didn't. I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe it was old and weaker than normal geese. Maybe it had avian flu that day.

 

[Maxperson]

While I "like"d this post, I prefer a game where levelling up is an occasional side effect of ongoing play rather than the primary reason for it.

It kinda already is. Levels are not an in-game construct. In the fiction the PCs are just improving over time, not gaining levels. Leveling is mainly a player perk.

But gimme that loot!

Yep!

 

[Maxperson]

More an example of low wisdom coupled with blind luck, I think.

Blind luck. I don't think wisdom or lack of it really applies to a 4 year old.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't think 5e has age penalties/bonuses.

This was 1974, so if there were age penalties then, those would be the ones that applied.

 

[Hussar]

There's no reason that that particular consequence would be obvious before the attempt was made, but I have had many players who would scream bloody murder if it happened when they failed a check.

That would be a problem with the players, not a problem with the system. The information is actually right in the DMG - the DM can rule that subsequent checks are not possible after a failure. Again, page 237 of the DMG.

So, you failed an insight check, the NPC "clams up" and no further insight checks are possible. All 100% supported by the rules and completely reasonable. The rules cannot help you if the players are going to ignore the rules.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That would be a problem with the players, not a problem with the system. The information is actually right in the DMG - the DM can rule that subsequent checks are not possible after a failure. Again, page 237 of the DMG.

So, you failed an insight check, the NPC "clams up" and no further insight checks are possible. All 100% supported by the rules and completely reasonable. The rules cannot help you if the players are going to ignore the rules.

Could you still make a Persuasion, or an Intimidate?

 

[Hussar]

Could you still make a Persuasion, or an Intimidate?

Considering those are totally different actions and rolls, why not? Insight is not tied to either. I might buy the idea that you mollify the NPC with Persuasion, or scare them into talking more with Intimidate, but, barring those further successes, your failed Insight check ends the conversation.

That's how skills are supposed to work. Particularly social skills.