What are your thought on the Mystic Theurge?

[Sejs]

Looks like hot stuff on paper. In play it's much more tame.

In the end you're much more versatile, but you lack in the oh-my-god punch of a straight caster.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Just ask your DM if you scan play gestalt. Then he'll never think Mt is overpowered again.

Seriously, I have seen it in play, and it makes an excellent third caster. Not overpowered by any means, especially if you take a Warmage type class that gets 2nd level spells a bit late. The most powerful verion I have seen is Cerebomancer, which is the Wizard/Psion version. Both spellcastings work off Int, and Psionics is far easier to abuse in this build.

But your build should not be a problem at all.

 

[Felon]

It really only seems overly powerful if combined with other PrCs that alter the rate of spellcasting advance (like Ur Priest) or advance both sides at the same time. And it seems pretty weak at low to mid levels - being a level 4 warmage/level 3 cleric would pretty much suck, and even a few MT levels wouldn't help that much.

I am actually playing a warmage 2/cleric 4 in a campaign. It doesn't suck. The warmage packs offense, while the cleric offers versatility. Of course, at least one helping of the Practiced Spellcaster feat is a virtual must. Eventually, another one will come in handy.

The real problem with the warmage is range. Most of their artillery is close range only. Of the class's 1st level spells, only magic missile and hail of stones will be useful at distances greater than 40 feet or so. It doesn't really improve that much when you get 2nd-level spells either, mainly because their aren't actually a lot of "blasty" 2nd-level spells; Melf's acid arrow is the only new long-range addition.

 

[drothgery]

Wizard/archivist (Heroes of Horror)/mystic theurge is pretty much MAD-free.

 

[airwalkrr]

The mystic theurge is hardly a bad class. Allow me to provide a brief history lesson. When the 3.5 edition was in the works and this was one of the first previews we had of the system, it was without the proper context of the 3.5 rules as a whole. Players and DMs alike looked at this class and said to themselves that it was the most broken piece of crap they had ever seen. The first reason was buff spells like bull's strength and fox's cunning. These spells had 1 hour/level durations and could be metamagically enhanced. The mystic theurge, with his abundance of spells, could theoretically easily afford to keep them handy at all times. The second reason was haste, the action booster. More spells + more spells per round = better character. Finally, there was simply the fact that no one had ever played one besides playtesters.

When the mystic theurge showed up on the scene, there were a lot of changes to the rules that came along with it, things that people did not necessarily anticipate. Of major note was the change to haste, which seriously mitigated any previous "OMGSFB!" reactions. Additionally, other buff spells like magic vestment, greater magic weapon, bull's strength, and the like were "nerfed," either by reducing their durations or their effect. After several years worth of experience, we have seen several variations on the "prestige class as multiclass" idea and honestly, it hasn't caused huge problems for people in most cases. One major deterrent to actually playing a mystic theurge is the process of becoming a mystic theurge, a process which involves six levels in two classes that must be spread evenly between each other. Compare a 3rd-level cleric/3rd-level wizard to almost any other 6th level character, multiclass characters usually included, and the mystic theurge wannabe is quite limited in power.

At any rate, the mystic theurge is not broken. Ultimately, the class is sub-par at spellcasting and simply trades potential for stamina. Your DM may be concerned about the mystic theurge if he is running 3e, but if he is running 3.5, he was probably caught up in the initial fear of the class and never moved beyond it, or he has limited experience DMing (either in general or just with this rules set) and doesn't want to introduce such a wild card effect into his game. Or he may have another reason, but I think we are past the days when everyone cries foul at the mystic theurge. I think popular conception now holds that it is a pretty balanced class that has become the paradigm for multiclass caster prestige classes.

 

[Kesh]

The latest Characters with Class article is on the Mystic Theurge. Not a bad writeup, though geared more towards optimization than anything else.

I do think an Archivist/Wizard/MT would be a fun combination to play.

 

[Chimera]

What everyone else said.

Saw one played from 7th to 10th level. Lots of spells, never seemed to run out, but none of the higher level spells you'd expect in a higher level group. The Player's favorite expression was "I'll have that next level".

 

[Sejs]

I do think an Archivist/Wizard/MT would be a fun combination to play.

And quite reasonable conceptually. A wizard trying to bridge the gap between arcane and divine magic via research.

 

[rgard]

It really only seems overly powerful if combined with other PrCs that alter the rate of spellcasting advance (like Ur Priest) or advance both sides at the same time. And it seems pretty weak at low to mid levels - being a level 4 warmage/level 3 cleric would pretty much suck, and even a few MT levels wouldn't help that much.

Yes, I'm running an Ur Priest, Wizard, Mystic Theurge at the moment. The divine spell progression is great as you work your way up in level, but at the end of the day the character will be weaker than the cleric/wiz/mt at epic levels. The Ur Priest will only ever get one 9th level divine spell per day barring having an outrageous wisdom score.

Once you complete the Ur Priest 10 levels you drop the MT prestige class and progress as a Wizard or other Wizard PRC. Then you begin to wonder if it would have been better to run a Cleric as the divine part of the MT PRC as you are now not picking up any more divine spells per day.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[GlassJaw]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the MT. Definitely a little scary on paper but is very balanced in play.

One of my favorite characters I've played in 3ed was a Drd/Wiz/MT. I think I ended up getting to level 17 (Drd5/Wiz5/MT7). I really liked using metamagic feats because of the huge number of spell slots. I didn't mind filling up some higher level slots with empowered or quickened spells.