What Classes are Missing?

[Droogie128]

I think the swordmage is as close to a ranged defender as we'll see. They're pretty good at it.

 

[Hadrian the Builder]

Not to get too far OT, but it seems to me that the #1 problem with a mounted paladin, as far as the game developers might be concerned, is the large mount... Still, I want to see mounted paladins. I wonder if anyone has some homebrew ideas for a class design.

 

[Turtlejay]

I've thought about this a little bit. I think with the power structure, you could build a character to work with or without his mount. Just have powers that work while mounted, and powers that don't. Similar to how the Druid has some that work while shapechanged. The difference is, in an extended dungeon crawl you might end up not really functioning as well as a non-mounted Paladin.

Jay

 

[eamon]

That's precisely what I don't want to see. I can do without Mary-Sue characters...

All classes have a bit of this in them - that's kind of the point. They're in-game realized versions of some ideal class, after all...

With hybrid classes and multiclassing you can already create characters that have abilities from each of the four roles. There are also some paragon classes that help if you inclined to go in that direction. That's more than sufficient, imho.

No, that's the opposite of what I'm suggesting. I emphatically don't want ever less distinct mixtures, but rather want more distinctive classes. The defender-striker-controller-leader space isn't the only degree to which classes can differ. But as is, most classes are built to be defined along those axes - and the rest seems incidental.

That means that there's little reason for new classes and little to be gained by using them. Sometimes they have a few distinct new tricks, so for char-op purposes they might be interesting, or have a few specifically attractive powers or what not, but in terms of playstyle, they don't represent anything particularly new. This might not be a problem, but that's the topic for another thread. In this thread, the question was asked that if you want more classes, what would they be.

There's nothing wrong with the PHB class design approach - but we already have those classes and we're a few years on with a design team that presumably has a better feel for the system. So, I'd like to see a balanced class that doesn't feel like it was built to be a defender or controller as primary concern, but feels like it was built to be itself and whereby the role(s) are perhaps tweaked on as an afterthought; or where, as you suggest, the role may vary from time to time.

 

[DracoSuave]

There's nothing wrong with the PHB class design approach - but we already have those classes and we're a few years on with a design team that presumably has a better feel for the system. So, I'd like to see a balanced class that doesn't feel like it was built to be a defender or controller as primary concern, but feels like it was built to be itself and whereby the role(s) are perhaps tweaked on as an afterthought; or where, as you suggest, the role may vary from time to time.

I would like to see them fully explore the design space they have first.

I think the only role in the game that's exhausted its potential and is starting to wear thin is the Striker, and that's the class that is in most need of some 'outside the box' design. It's also the one role in the game that isn't as mission critical, so you -can- do that.

The other three roles, well they should stick to what they're good at for now. We still haven't seen all they can do with Leaders, Defenders, and Controllers. To me, all classes so far of these roles seem extremely different--Leaders especially are the kings of 'do the same thing in a different way.'

Plus, roles are helpful to -players.- More hybrids leads to the old 'Well, we could go in with some hybrids, but they aren't as good at what we need... so...'

Dabbling in other roles is fine, but -every- class should be strong in their central role. Look at Bards as to how to do it right.

 

[Piratecat]

Not to get too far OT, but it seems to me that the #1 problem with a mounted paladin, as far as the game developers might be concerned, is the large mount... Still, I want to see mounted paladins. I wonder if anyone has some homebrew ideas for a class design.

I can see a Spectral Knight, mounted on a ghostly horse; the mount has the ability to phase through smaller spaces so long as there's enough room for the mounted rider to pass. Thus it couldn't pass through a closed door, but could ride into a small cave with its legs and part of its body phased into the stone.

Not perfect, but passable, and it has some flavor.

 

[tyrlaan]

I've thought about this a little bit. I think with the power structure, you could build a character to work with or without his mount. Just have powers that work while mounted, and powers that don't. Similar to how the Druid has some that work while shapechanged. The difference is, in an extended dungeon crawl you might end up not really functioning as well as a non-mounted Paladin.

Jay

You solve this by taking a page (pun not originally intended) from the wizard's spellbook implementation. The mounted class could have more or less two sets of powers and just swap in the mounted ones when possible.

Though that introduces other issues, like how often it can swap powers, when does it become too powerful, etc.

Another idea would be to do something whereas each power has a different effect whether you're mounted or not mounted.

Another idea would be to build powers into the mounts and then the class dailies and encounters let you tap into those powers.

Just some ideas as they hit me, but I think a mounted class is definitely doable.

 

[Kinneus]

I want a really heavy-duty Summoning class. A Minion-spawner. The guy who doesn't just summon the occassional beefed-up super-monster to help him win the day... we already have that with the Beastmaster Ranger, the Shaman, and the new Summoning powers for wizards. No, I want to see a guy that can lead a small army.

This could potentially work well for a Necromancer character, which I must admit is something I've been salivating about for a long time. But, more generically, this is something that just feels missing from the game. Why is that whenever I summon something, it's always a big hulking monstrosity? Why can't I choose to conjure a bunch of little ankle-biters? Obviously, this would be a very complicated class to play, but I think it's doable.

I think they might work like Shaman and their spirit animals, but instead of only one, they can simultaneously summon three at Heroic, four at Paragon, and five at Epic. They don't have to be a huge horde... just a handful would be enough to give the 'commander' vibe I'm looking for. To keep them balanced with the Shaman, they would have to be very weak, or else hard to replace, unlike the Shaman who can just re-summon her dead spirit animal with a minor action. Either gambit would work.

Powers would focus on using these Minions to... do things. Not sure what exactly, but one thing that sticks out to me as a potential daily power is letting one of your minions 'self-destruct' for massive damage. For a Necromancer, this could be your skeleton exploding into bony shrapnel. For a Commander this could be an all-out kamikaze-style do-or-die attack.

Maybe a utility power would involve sacrificing a minion to gain a boost of temporary HP. Another utility would involve the minion jumping in front of an ally, taking a bullet for him. A daily might temporarily increase the number of minions you have. At-wills could focus of sliding, shifting or teleporting minions, or letting them inflict CA via flanking.

I have to admit, I'm picturing a Necromancer in my head as I come up with all these examples. "Oh, you smashed my skeletons? No matter... I'll just make more, set them on fire, and have them run at you with flasks of oil strapped to their chests." But this could be easily re-skinned to fit other classes or roles. A Divine character that is served by mortals souls that worship his deity? Or, ooh, better yet, somebody who is charged with leading, redeeming, or punishing the souls of the damned (you could call it the Pyschopomp class)? A Primal character who, like the Shaman, manifests primal spirits in a tangible form? An Artificer-like Arcane character who makes little clockwork decoys? A Martial character that makes heavy use of hirelings (these minions would fit the "strong, but harder to replace than the Shaman's spirit companion" design strategy, for the sake of realism if nothing else)? Maybe another character could be focused on capturing or tricking demons, devils, or evil fey into his service, and then using them to further his own ends? Sort of like a hardcore, adventuring Prospero from The Tempest?

One of my favorite characters to play in MMORPGs (on the rare occassions when I do deign to play an MMORPG) is the Necromancer, like in Diablo or Guild Wars. They're not always the strongest characters, but I get a primal joy out filling the screen with my undead servants. It's something I've been unable to replicate in D&D... sorry, that one little spirit-wolf I get with my Shaman isn't gonna cut it.

 

[Flipguarder]

the problem with the "necromancer" idea as you see it, is that battlefield control is already one of the most important things in battle. If you could summon more than 3 or 4 of these minions and they all took one 5X5 square then you could just give everyone flanking all the time, make some places impossible to go, and very literally control the battlefield better than any other class.

It's a very slippery slope.

 

[davethegame]

"Environment" Controller: This controller creates sustained environmental shaping powers. Lots of walls (possibly even movable!) to prevent or funnel enemy movement. Or creating pits/higher ground/other effects that shape the actual encounter area, forcing adaption on the part of the party and enemy. This could easily benefit from an Adjuration build, where zones grant benefits for allies (like concealment; again, see the Goblin Hexer's Vexing Cloud).

I'm generally not a big fan of a lot of the ideas for new classes that people throw around, but this I absolutely love and could see... or at least, a major new build for a wizard with lots of new powers.