What D&Disms have you never liked?

[Mr. Wilson]

Disposable weapons/armor have always bothered me more than anything else. IMNC, I'm going to try out the inherent bonus system to see how that works.

Other DnDisms I could live without:

Racial limitations on level caps (pre 3E) and favorite class (3E).

Paladins pre 4E.

Gods as just REALLY powerful monsters you can slay.

Sneak Attack being useless against one of the most common enemies (undead).

Level drain and level draining monsters.

Save or die spells or traps.

Even with those things all stated, DnD has always been either my favorite or second favorite system (Star Wars d6 was more fun for me than AD&D).

 

[hagor]

level drain. IMC, I introduced life energy levels (these are drained) (is a concept I read somewhere) or I substitute level drain with some kind of cold/negative energy damage.

Another thing that bugs me (perhaps not a true D&Dism - particularly in 3.x/can't remember in 2E): clerics & druid instantly having access to the whole list of their spells (vs. spontaneous casters having to choose & wizards limited by what they have in their spell books). I guess I liked the specialty priests of 2E better.

Hagor

 

[Gort]

It isn't that I object to the new races or the old ones per se. My objection is to jamming every single freakin' one of them into every single freakin' published setting.

In this then, we are 100% in agreement. But it's obvious why they do this - they don't want to lose the "elf crowd" if they say "There are absolutely no elves in Dark Sun". Instead they'll say, "If you play an elf in Dark Sun, you can do this with them."

But I get the annoyance.

 

[Stoat]

Another thing that bugs me (perhaps not a true D&Dism - particularly in 3.x/can't remember in 2E): clerics & druid instantly having access to the whole list of their spells (vs. spontaneous casters having to choose & wizards limited by what they have in their spell books).

This has always been a little bit of a beef for me too. It gives a big power up to Divine Casters every time a new sourcebook is released.

 

[Dausuul]

In this then, we are 100% in agreement. But it's obvious why they do this - they don't want to lose the "elf crowd" if they say "There are absolutely no elves in Dark Sun". Instead they'll say, "If you play an elf in Dark Sun, you can do this with them."

Yeah, I know the reason why they do it. Although I'm not entirely sure that reason is as compelling as they think.

I do note that they plan on all the races not being explicitly included in 4E Dark Sun, which seems like a reasonable solution. If people don't scream about the lack of gnomes, that might embolden WotC to try taking it a little further with the next setting.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Yeah, I know the reason why they do it. Although I'm not entirely sure that reason is as compelling as they think.

Yeah, really not.

This is one of my pet peeves concerning most of the (in many cases, otherwise OK) d20/OGL settings that I've seen. Either shunting Elves, Dwarves, Halflings (etc.) wholesale into say, Ancient Egypt (just one of a hell-load; not pickin') or creating near-identical equivalents, presumably so that elf-lovers and the rest are not left out in the cold. Guh.

But yes, 'actual D&D settings' are notorious for this as well, as you say.

 

[Zaran]

Originally Posted by Gort
In this then, we are 100% in agreement. But it's obvious why they do this - they don't want to lose the "elf crowd" if they say "There are absolutely no elves in Dark Sun". Instead they'll say, "If you play an elf in Dark Sun, you can do this with them."

I don't think they did this with Darksun. Darksun used to be a generic fantasy world that got destroyed by a magical apocalypse. The creators wanted there to be signs of that old world albeit twisted almost beyond recognition. So they pretty much had to put in some of the classic races while adding new ones. If I remember correctly, each race was slightly different from their generic ancestors and required new writeups.

The biggest dnd peeve I have is the focus on combat although I do not think dnd is the only game that suffers from this. I think any game that has roots in minatures combat has the same problem.

I also do not like enhancement bonuses and the fact that the game is designed around them. To me that makes them not bonuses at all. I like the fact that 4e has started to offer ways around this sort of thing.

 

[Dausuul]

I don't think they did this with Darksun. Darksun used to be a generic fantasy world that got destroyed by a magical apocalypse. The creators wanted there to be signs of that old world albeit twisted almost beyond recognition. So they pretty much had to put in some of the classic races while adding new ones. If I remember correctly, each race was slightly different from their generic ancestors and required new writeups.

Mm... debatable. I would argue that "generic fantasy world origin" is not essential to Dark Sun, and if you look at the canonical (and wretched IMO, but never mind that) back story presented in the novels and later published materials, it's a far cry from generic fantasy.

To me, the essence of Dark Sun is that it's a brutal desert world full of mutant monsters and ravaged by life-draining sorcery. Elves and dwarves are not necessary to that, and in fact I think their presence - even altered as they are - detracts from the Dying Earth vibe. Thri-kreen, now... thri-kreen fit Dark Sun like a glove.

(Although I do confess to having a great fondness for Dark Sun's cannibal halflings.)

 

[Ariosto]

There really was no "generic fantasy" until a program of inbreeding between Tolkien-influenced epics and D&D. There is yet no such pervasive concept, that I can see, beyond the "gamer" subculture.

The Harry Potter series, the His Dark Designs trilogy, or the novels of Mieville, venture just a little beyond, into the wider circle of "heroic fantasy" (even "epic" still) -- but already the view is strikingly diverse. The genre of fantasy is actually vast, encompassing many sub-genres that often intermix, and borrowing freely from every other genre under the sun. Via "magic realism" and other approaches, it gets incorporated into works under the (increasingly misleading) heading of "mainstream fiction".

At this point (and maybe others) we slip into "D&Disms" that have less to do with the seminal texts, and their authors' intent, than with what blinders an insular and incestuous subculture (of a subculture!) has put on itself.

 

[Dausuul]

There really was no "generic fantasy" until a program of inbreeding between Tolkien-influenced epics and D&D. There is yet no such pervasive concept, that I can see, beyond the "gamer" subculture.

Very true. We should probably be discussing, not "generic fantasy," but "generic D&D world son of Forgotten Realms son of Middle-Earth."

Dark Sun's real roots lie in Jack Vance's Dying Earth, which was clearly a huge inspiration for the setting (apocalyptic swords-and-sorcery world beneath a bloated and dying crimson sun). It would have done better to cut its ties with Tolkien altogether.