dreaded_beast
First Post
Anyone have any suggestions or advice on what to do when you discover that the combat encounter you prepared is either too hard or too easy for your group?
What do you do when an encounter is too hard/easy?
- Thread starter dreaded_beast
- Start date
Jolly Giant
First Post
Just wing it! 
Or a little more seriously: Give every enemy a bonus or a penalty to everything. Give +/- 2 or 4 (if it's really bad!) to attacks, damage, AC, saves... everything!
Or a little more seriously: Give every enemy a bonus or a penalty to everything. Give +/- 2 or 4 (if it's really bad!) to attacks, damage, AC, saves... everything!
Altamont Ravenard
Explorer
That's easy, you just buy more mini's... Whoops, mixing up threads here 
Do you mean you realize during the combat after the fight is over (ie the characters plowed through your encounter without breaking a sweat or it was a near-total TPK)?
There can be so many factors that influence the difficulty of a fight. It's hard to put a numerical value on those (if a numerical value should be put):
- bad die rolls
- lousy player tactics
- CR out of whack
- elaborate (killer) DM tactics
- can't think of any more in this after-lunch yawn-fest I'm having...
To save yourself some trouble, don't change the XP. On the long run, your characters will have easy fights, average fights and tough fights. Sometimes they'll get "too many XP" or "too litlle XP", in your opinion, for a particular fight. Like I've said, in the longrun, it'll balance itself out.
Of course, if you realize that every fight you throw at them brings them to the brink of total annihilation, perhaps you should revise your strategies
AR
Do you mean you realize during the combat after the fight is over (ie the characters plowed through your encounter without breaking a sweat or it was a near-total TPK)?
There can be so many factors that influence the difficulty of a fight. It's hard to put a numerical value on those (if a numerical value should be put):
- bad die rolls
- lousy player tactics
- CR out of whack
- elaborate (killer) DM tactics
- can't think of any more in this after-lunch yawn-fest I'm having...
To save yourself some trouble, don't change the XP. On the long run, your characters will have easy fights, average fights and tough fights. Sometimes they'll get "too many XP" or "too litlle XP", in your opinion, for a particular fight. Like I've said, in the longrun, it'll balance itself out.
Of course, if you realize that every fight you throw at them brings them to the brink of total annihilation, perhaps you should revise your strategies
AR
the Jester
Legend
I'm not sure what you mean by 'too easy' or 'too hard.'
StalkingBlue
First Post
If too easy, do not change anything. Let the PCs win, give out treasure and XP, if you think they played smartly, tell the players so.
If too hard, consider one change if you hadn't done so before: make sure the PCs have a chance to realise they are in over their heads and escape. Once chance that is. Don't fudge monster stats.
Three things will happen:
One: Your players will thank you for a more 'realistic' feel of the world - sometimes meeting thing you find you can't beat will make other victories taste all the sweeter because players will know that in your game, victory isn't guaranteed by the DM.
Two: Your world will suddenly have gained an additional potential long-term foe for the party they will be eager to beat ... one day. (The group I play in recently finally managed to beat a long-term villain, after two years or so of trying and a trail of dead PCs, two of whom were mine. Yay!)
And three: something that works for walkover encounters as well as for potential TPKs:
You will have learnt stuff from running the encounter that'll help you plan future encounters better. What is easier for your group than you expected? What is harder? Why?
If too hard, consider one change if you hadn't done so before: make sure the PCs have a chance to realise they are in over their heads and escape. Once chance that is. Don't fudge monster stats.
Three things will happen:
One: Your players will thank you for a more 'realistic' feel of the world - sometimes meeting thing you find you can't beat will make other victories taste all the sweeter because players will know that in your game, victory isn't guaranteed by the DM.
Two: Your world will suddenly have gained an additional potential long-term foe for the party they will be eager to beat ... one day. (The group I play in recently finally managed to beat a long-term villain, after two years or so of trying and a trail of dead PCs, two of whom were mine. Yay!)
And three: something that works for walkover encounters as well as for potential TPKs:
You will have learnt stuff from running the encounter that'll help you plan future encounters better. What is easier for your group than you expected? What is harder? Why?
You've got a couple of variables there.
A. Was the encounter easy or hard
B. Have you figured out A during or after the combat
Easy Encounters:
Generally don't change any stats on the monsters (what someone else said). You run the risk of ruining the party's good tactics just because you're losing. In reality, most encounters get their punch from the setup/entrapment, so if you screw that up, or the players bypass it, then fair game applies.
If you find it too easy DURING the encounter, you have a few tricks left:
pause and look at the monsters goodies. See if you missed any cool features (feats, gear, specials) that you can use against the players. I often forget special powers on monsters
If the monsters are losing, have them run away. Try to figure out an escape plan to save as many of your monsters as possible. What fool wouldn't have an exit plan for if the PCs start winning. (this will also teach the players how to run away). Whether you use the escapees to reinforce a later encounter, or have them completely leave the area is up to you. You might have them come in and reinforce another encounter that you find is too easy.
If you find it was too easy AFTER the encounter, don't sweat it. Figure out what went wrong for the monsters and improve your tactics. Give out the XP as normal. Odds are good, you forgot something like the setup, or a special rule, or the players outwitted you. It's better to have an easy encounter than a TPK generally (and most players like that).
Hard Encounters:
This is harder to deal with. A lot of it depends on whether the players were really dumb, or just bad luck/situation.
If you figure out the encounter is hard AFTER the combat, you're kind of stuck. The results are in. You might try to have the monsters heal them and keep them as prisoners (I try to avoid that). Some DMs opt for the Dream-Sequence (I hate those). Mostly, I'd just let it stick as something for players and DM to learn from.
Now the ideal is to figure out the combat is too hard DURING the fight.
Then you have some options. If the players were just acting dumb (I mean really dumb) and not just in character dumb, then by all means start handing out Darwin awards. Be sure to differentiate from "I had to fight it" from "I'm the moron who decided to pick a fight with Lord Soth at the neutral leaders summit".
Still with me, then I assume you like your PCs...now to decide what effect you want. Do you want to make the fight easier, or encourage them to run. The third option is obvious and if you change nothing, it resolves itself (aka TPK).
Making it Easier: Roll damage and attacks behind a screen and reduce the amount of damage. Start provoking attacks of opportunity by moving the monsters more dumbly (rushing a farther away PC...). Don't use your nastier attack options. Don't just play the monsters dumb as that's too obvious. Simply stop making perfect tactical decisions.
Making them Run Away: The ideal for a hard encounter is for the PCs to figure that out and to retreat. Smart people (who get to be high level smart people) know their limits and know when to back down. The best thing to do as GM, is to make sure you leave the players some openings for retreat. That may mean moving monsters into spots where the players can get away. It may mean killing the unconcious PC so they don't feel like they have to save him by killing all the bad guys. It may mean making the monsters grab someone and then the monsters take off (which ends the encounter so the PCs can regroup and possibly jump start their tactics). You may also want to ask them if they want to retreat at some point (some people never even think to run away from a fight).
An encounter that was too hard is usually the hardest to deal with. Sometimes it was the GM's fault for writing a unfair encounter. Other times its the players' fault for rolling badly or doing something dumb. And still other times, its a fact of life that the party will encounter something that is tougher than it. The best thing to do as a GM is to make sure players can figure out that they're in trouble, and to make sure they have an escape route (never make too perfect a trap). If they're smart, they'll see it and use it, and the problem will resolve itself (players escape, encounter ends, no XP).
Just some thoughts,
Janx
A. Was the encounter easy or hard
B. Have you figured out A during or after the combat
Easy Encounters:
Generally don't change any stats on the monsters (what someone else said). You run the risk of ruining the party's good tactics just because you're losing. In reality, most encounters get their punch from the setup/entrapment, so if you screw that up, or the players bypass it, then fair game applies.
If you find it too easy DURING the encounter, you have a few tricks left:
pause and look at the monsters goodies. See if you missed any cool features (feats, gear, specials) that you can use against the players. I often forget special powers on monsters
If the monsters are losing, have them run away. Try to figure out an escape plan to save as many of your monsters as possible. What fool wouldn't have an exit plan for if the PCs start winning. (this will also teach the players how to run away). Whether you use the escapees to reinforce a later encounter, or have them completely leave the area is up to you. You might have them come in and reinforce another encounter that you find is too easy.
If you find it was too easy AFTER the encounter, don't sweat it. Figure out what went wrong for the monsters and improve your tactics. Give out the XP as normal. Odds are good, you forgot something like the setup, or a special rule, or the players outwitted you. It's better to have an easy encounter than a TPK generally (and most players like that).
Hard Encounters:
This is harder to deal with. A lot of it depends on whether the players were really dumb, or just bad luck/situation.
If you figure out the encounter is hard AFTER the combat, you're kind of stuck. The results are in. You might try to have the monsters heal them and keep them as prisoners (I try to avoid that). Some DMs opt for the Dream-Sequence (I hate those). Mostly, I'd just let it stick as something for players and DM to learn from.
Now the ideal is to figure out the combat is too hard DURING the fight.
Then you have some options. If the players were just acting dumb (I mean really dumb) and not just in character dumb, then by all means start handing out Darwin awards. Be sure to differentiate from "I had to fight it" from "I'm the moron who decided to pick a fight with Lord Soth at the neutral leaders summit".
Still with me, then I assume you like your PCs...now to decide what effect you want. Do you want to make the fight easier, or encourage them to run. The third option is obvious and if you change nothing, it resolves itself (aka TPK).
Making it Easier: Roll damage and attacks behind a screen and reduce the amount of damage. Start provoking attacks of opportunity by moving the monsters more dumbly (rushing a farther away PC...). Don't use your nastier attack options. Don't just play the monsters dumb as that's too obvious. Simply stop making perfect tactical decisions.
Making them Run Away: The ideal for a hard encounter is for the PCs to figure that out and to retreat. Smart people (who get to be high level smart people) know their limits and know when to back down. The best thing to do as GM, is to make sure you leave the players some openings for retreat. That may mean moving monsters into spots where the players can get away. It may mean killing the unconcious PC so they don't feel like they have to save him by killing all the bad guys. It may mean making the monsters grab someone and then the monsters take off (which ends the encounter so the PCs can regroup and possibly jump start their tactics). You may also want to ask them if they want to retreat at some point (some people never even think to run away from a fight).
An encounter that was too hard is usually the hardest to deal with. Sometimes it was the GM's fault for writing a unfair encounter. Other times its the players' fault for rolling badly or doing something dumb. And still other times, its a fact of life that the party will encounter something that is tougher than it. The best thing to do as a GM is to make sure players can figure out that they're in trouble, and to make sure they have an escape route (never make too perfect a trap). If they're smart, they'll see it and use it, and the problem will resolve itself (players escape, encounter ends, no XP).
Just some thoughts,
Janx
Is its an easy encounter, one of the easiest things to do is.... have another one!!
Your players just swarmed through a mess of orcs like grass, blades flying, spells thrown, but all in all cake for the players.
Players: Hehe, well that was easy, took out the band of orcs.
DM: (doing the little dm smile), well yeah, you took out "a" band of orcs.
Players: oh oh
DM: Oh here comes the big group
The best way to pull this off is always assume everything is under control. If the encounter was too easy, play it off like it was supposed to be. You are the leader of the game, and part of being a leader is respect. You look like your in control and people believe it, and will respect you more.
Your players just swarmed through a mess of orcs like grass, blades flying, spells thrown, but all in all cake for the players.
Players: Hehe, well that was easy, took out the band of orcs.
DM: (doing the little dm smile), well yeah, you took out "a" band of orcs.
Players: oh oh
DM: Oh here comes the big group
The best way to pull this off is always assume everything is under control. If the encounter was too easy, play it off like it was supposed to be. You are the leader of the game, and part of being a leader is respect. You look like your in control and people believe it, and will respect you more.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Easiest way to deal with hard encounters is use suboptimal monsters - your monsters don't have to have full HP and the standard array - so they're fighting the Dragon that just happens to be a runt of the species, the Storm Giant is still recovering from a former encounter with a Wyvern, or the Dread Scorcerer hasn't had any sleep
Easy encounters - using waves (the orc band (scouting party) followed shotly by the whole Orc army) has been mentioned another trick I use is non-standard special abilities (eg shadows with the ability to cause darkness - or have the three injured shadows (which we have already identified as non-standard) suddenly meld together to form a full strength Shadow Mastiff)
Easy encounters - using waves (the orc band (scouting party) followed shotly by the whole Orc army) has been mentioned another trick I use is non-standard special abilities (eg shadows with the ability to cause darkness - or have the three injured shadows (which we have already identified as non-standard) suddenly meld together to form a full strength Shadow Mastiff)
Nyarlathotep
Explorer
My technique is to "forget". Encounter too easy? Forget to remove some hitpoints from the bad guys when they get hit. Too hard? Forget to have the bad guys make optimal attacks, forget strength bonuses on damage rolls... and so forth
Crothian
First Post
Nothing...there should be easy and hard encounter encounters. If its too easy, the combat should go fast and you move on to whatever is next. IF its too hard, hope the players are intelligent enough to see it and hopefully they will either retreat or think up something really clever to win.
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